Attorneys for Taylor Swift are threatening legal action against the Florida college student who tracks the private jets of celebrities and public figures, including Swift.
But flight data is available - this guy just labels her N number and filters the data in a creepy way. I get that it’s probably causing her danger to have stalkers waiting at the destination for her - but those stalkers always had access to this flight data.
Well, yes, but I think we can at least acknowledge when public information is used to harass. Home addresses are identifiable via public tax records, but it would obviously be different if someone posted your home address and reported in real time whether or not you’re inside. We all know people actively want to stalk and harass her, and anyone making it easier to do so maybe shouldn’t, even though it’s technically legal. If someone drove around and picked up everyone who has explicitly said they’d like to rape or kill her, and dropped them off at her doorstep with knives and guns, I hope we’d all agree that’s pretty fucked up and shouldn’t be condoned.
It’s a bit like the difference between having a gun stolen out of a safe and having a gun stolen out of an unlocked car that was left parked overnight in a crowded shopping mall. Yeah, the direct culprit might have stolen it one way or another, but there’s also at least some culpability for the person who made it easy for them to steal it, and potentially later inflict harm. I’m not saying Sweeney should be charged with a crime, of course, but doxxing is poor form for a very good reason, and civil suits can be brought for all kinds of harm (direct or indirect) which are caused by actions that are otherwise legal. In the age of worldwide social media, these are boundaries that we can discuss with nuance, rather than dismissing them out of hand because the rules currently allow unfettered abuse.
If it’s not safe for people to use publicly available information then it shouldn’t be publicly available. No one was worried about it when it was used to call Musk out. Or the 1000s of people dealing with stalkers that aren’t famous enough for anyone to give a fuck about. Either protect everyone or don’t. You can’t just single out the rich white girls.
My point is just going after this guy isn’t going to fix the root of the problem. If him being able to do this is an issue then the information he is accessing should be restricted. Just making him stop won’t prevent the next person from doing it to someone else.
I don’t disagree. He’s already had his Swift-specific accounts booted from Facebook, Instagram, and Xitter and started posting instead to his “Celeb Jets” FB and IG accounts, so it’s clear he’s going to play the cat-and-mouse game indefinitely.
But again, I didn’t say a single thing about singling out rich white girls. That was a strawman you made up out of whole cloth.
That was meant more as a general statement to all the people who are up in arms about this but were jerking themselves off when it happened to musk a while back.
The federal government will take publicly available information and if it is bundled up with enough other information it is still considered classified and you can still (if you hold any sort of clearance) be in trouble for sharing that classified bundle.
Which is just to say there is legal precedent agreeing with your point, although AFAIK that responsibility only applies to folks who have already agreed to responsibly handle confidential information.
Yeah I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discuss harm avoidance here. There are likely workarounds she can employ, but it’s sad that people seem to be taking the stance that “fuck her, it’s public” is the end of the conversation. Maybe her lawyers know something we don’t about what kind of harm this is actually causing. It’s easy to cheer for Sweeney when he’s giving the middle finger to a jackass like Elon Musk, but I find it harder to stand in his “I do it because fuck you” corner when he’s weaponizing information against others who aren’t huge assholes.
Speech is protected, but threats are not. Online shit talking is protected, but cyberbullying is widely condemned. As a society we need to figure out where the line is between what’s allowable and what’s highly discouraged. “It’s legal” isn’t a useful cut off for these kinds of discussions, because we’ve recently come up with all kinds of state laws to punish stalkers when their behavior crosses the line from benign to unwelcome to harmful. Stalkers can be held criminally liable for using telephone calls, letters, telegraphs, delivery of packages or engaging in any conduct which interferes or intrudes on another’s privacy or liberty, all of which are completely legal and acceptable behaviors except when they’re employed to threaten or harass.
I always figured the point of tracking her, just like Musk, was commentary on the incredible waste that is the private jet industry. The politics of the person matter far less than the environmental consequences of their actions.
I don’t disagree, but if obsessed incels are using this to assist in stalking and harassing her and it poses an immediate risk to her safety, then it obviously takes on a more immediate meaning than whether or not people can use it to shame her for being environmentally reckless.
I agree, I think you’re being down voted by the people who cheered on the Elon musk tracking kid. Sure it might be legal but I think everyone can all agree they wouldn’t want this done to themselves.
99.999 percent of us here would never have this problem because we will never be close to owning a private jet, even if we wanted to for some reason. I also think most of us here agree that owning a private jet is selfish, and since its kind of a problem brought on by her own selfishness, it’s kind of hard to feel bad for her.
People who don’t have private jets get doxxed and harassed all the time because this story or that went viral. If you made a boneheaded comment to someone on the street that was recorded and uploaded, and the internet mob came for your blood, and someone made it their own personal mission to track your every move 24 hours a day, some of us would come to your defense and suggest that they might should stop for your safety. The rest of the mob would take the, “fuck you, it’s public” line you’re taking, and you’d probably have a hard time convincing them to give a shit.
Well, yes, but I think we can at least acknowledge when public information is used to harass. Home addresses are identifiable via public tax records, but it would obviously be different if someone posted your home address and reported in real time whether or not you’re inside. We all know people actively want to stalk and harass her, and anyone making it easier to do so maybe shouldn’t, even though it’s technically legal. If someone drove around and picked up everyone who has explicitly said they’d like to rape or kill her, and dropped them off at her doorstep with knives and guns, I hope we’d all agree that’s pretty fucked up and shouldn’t be condoned.
It’s a bit like the difference between having a gun stolen out of a safe and having a gun stolen out of an unlocked car that was left parked overnight in a crowded shopping mall. Yeah, the direct culprit might have stolen it one way or another, but there’s also at least some culpability for the person who made it easy for them to steal it, and potentially later inflict harm. I’m not saying Sweeney should be charged with a crime, of course, but doxxing is poor form for a very good reason, and civil suits can be brought for all kinds of harm (direct or indirect) which are caused by actions that are otherwise legal. In the age of worldwide social media, these are boundaries that we can discuss with nuance, rather than dismissing them out of hand because the rules currently allow unfettered abuse.
If it’s not safe for people to use publicly available information then it shouldn’t be publicly available. No one was worried about it when it was used to call Musk out. Or the 1000s of people dealing with stalkers that aren’t famous enough for anyone to give a fuck about. Either protect everyone or don’t. You can’t just single out the rich white girls.
I didn’t. Who are you arguing against?
My point is just going after this guy isn’t going to fix the root of the problem. If him being able to do this is an issue then the information he is accessing should be restricted. Just making him stop won’t prevent the next person from doing it to someone else.
I don’t disagree. He’s already had his Swift-specific accounts booted from Facebook, Instagram, and Xitter and started posting instead to his “Celeb Jets” FB and IG accounts, so it’s clear he’s going to play the cat-and-mouse game indefinitely.
But again, I didn’t say a single thing about singling out rich white girls. That was a strawman you made up out of whole cloth.
That was meant more as a general statement to all the people who are up in arms about this but were jerking themselves off when it happened to musk a while back.
The federal government will take publicly available information and if it is bundled up with enough other information it is still considered classified and you can still (if you hold any sort of clearance) be in trouble for sharing that classified bundle.
Which is just to say there is legal precedent agreeing with your point, although AFAIK that responsibility only applies to folks who have already agreed to responsibly handle confidential information.
Yeah I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discuss harm avoidance here. There are likely workarounds she can employ, but it’s sad that people seem to be taking the stance that “fuck her, it’s public” is the end of the conversation. Maybe her lawyers know something we don’t about what kind of harm this is actually causing. It’s easy to cheer for Sweeney when he’s giving the middle finger to a jackass like Elon Musk, but I find it harder to stand in his “I do it because fuck you” corner when he’s weaponizing information against others who aren’t huge assholes.
Speech is protected, but threats are not. Online shit talking is protected, but cyberbullying is widely condemned. As a society we need to figure out where the line is between what’s allowable and what’s highly discouraged. “It’s legal” isn’t a useful cut off for these kinds of discussions, because we’ve recently come up with all kinds of state laws to punish stalkers when their behavior crosses the line from benign to unwelcome to harmful. Stalkers can be held criminally liable for using telephone calls, letters, telegraphs, delivery of packages or engaging in any conduct which interferes or intrudes on another’s privacy or liberty, all of which are completely legal and acceptable behaviors except when they’re employed to threaten or harass.
I always figured the point of tracking her, just like Musk, was commentary on the incredible waste that is the private jet industry. The politics of the person matter far less than the environmental consequences of their actions.
I don’t disagree, but if obsessed incels are using this to assist in stalking and harassing her and it poses an immediate risk to her safety, then it obviously takes on a more immediate meaning than whether or not people can use it to shame her for being environmentally reckless.
Obsessed incels have been and will be stalking no matter if there’s flight data or not. This isn’t about that.
They will, and it is. That doesn’t mean we should willingly and gleefully make it easier for them to inflict harm.
I agree, I think you’re being down voted by the people who cheered on the Elon musk tracking kid. Sure it might be legal but I think everyone can all agree they wouldn’t want this done to themselves.
99.999 percent of us here would never have this problem because we will never be close to owning a private jet, even if we wanted to for some reason. I also think most of us here agree that owning a private jet is selfish, and since its kind of a problem brought on by her own selfishness, it’s kind of hard to feel bad for her.
People who don’t have private jets get doxxed and harassed all the time because this story or that went viral. If you made a boneheaded comment to someone on the street that was recorded and uploaded, and the internet mob came for your blood, and someone made it their own personal mission to track your every move 24 hours a day, some of us would come to your defense and suggest that they might should stop for your safety. The rest of the mob would take the, “fuck you, it’s public” line you’re taking, and you’d probably have a hard time convincing them to give a shit.