Is anyone actually surprised by this?
it is open-source, if they did something like this, we would know it for sure
DeepSeek does the same things that OpenAI does, but it’s a foreign actor so OOooooOOWwwwooOOOO sCaRrRey!
Wait until they hear what data Instagram/Meta collects during use!
But they’re a US company so it’s ok.
Realistically what is the worst thing China is doing with your private data? Selling it? If you’re not a Chinese National, at least you don’t fall under their jurisdiction.
If you’re a U.S. citizen, with all the tech oligarchs cozying up to the current administration, I’d be a lot more concerned with Facebook/Twitter/Etc collecting your data.
Realistically what is the worst thing China is doing with your private data?
Probably mapping out the extended support networks of democratic activists in Taiwan to prepare to throw them in jail after a forcible military takeover.
So democratic activists in Taiwan have extensive networks in the US?
I mean, you said it.
Extensive networks with their close ally? My pearls must be clutched!!
Networks with a foreign actor undermining national sovereignty, which financed several massacres in your country
My country? Not sure what you’re talking about but I know that Taiwan deserves sovereignty. You don’t? Surely you’re not pro imperialism…
The CCP is significantly more oppressive, gives zero shits about human rights or trademarks or really anyone at all. The US at least pretends to care.
Bro you can stop that narrative. The truth is out now.
The truth is out now.
What truth? Who talks like this and thinks it means something?
For the past week the people of China and the United States, as well as other countries have been comparing notes. Debunking propaganda on both sides. Realizing that much of what we’ve all been told for years/decades, has been lies.
I’m ootl. What debunks have come out?
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I’m not here to defend the Chinese government or anything, but there is an argument to be made that the US has an equivalency to each one of these things.
CCP officials at tech companies - NSA backdoors
Uyghur slaves - Prison labor aka war on drugs
Taiwan - Gaza/Literally any “3rd world” nation with oil
Censorship - Right wing media empires/red state bills targeted to downplay US atrocities taught in schools
Retaliation against protestors - Police brutality Social media censorship - Oligarchs owned social media
I think a lot of people are less falling for Chinese propaganda and more overcoming US propaganda.
With the caveat that we have tons of actual evidence for the US equivalent, whereas the claims that China does those things are usually “We absolutely swear they do bro” from the people who swore Hamas was raping babies or whatever.
If you think any of those are remotely the same, you’re simply delusional.
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You make a compelling argument.
’d love to be wrong.
No you wouldn’t. If you were, you’d have listen to the many people that probably have corrected you on all those State Department talking points
That’s never happened. And being that you haven’t either, I think it’s a fair guess that it won’t anytime soon.
EDIT: I just realized feddit blocks both Lemmygrad and Hexbear, so this user cannot see my comment. If anyone wants to use/copy my comment or link directly to it, feel free to do so, I believe I provided enough evidence to debunk most of this user’s sourceless claims. It’s a shame some instances just block us and shows who they truly are.
E: any of you downvoters, feel free to correct me, I’d love to be wrong.
You throw a bunch of claims with zero source and wants to be taken seriously. At least give us the bare minimum before just spewing this much US State Department propaganda.
That being said, I will address some of your points, since someone else might stumble upon this and need an actual answer.
They don’t have CCP officials required by law to work at tech companies and disclose any and all data they acquire?
Keeping a close look on the companies on their country and keeping them on a short leash is good actually. China is not a capitalist hellhole like the US or most of the world, it is a socialist state where the rich does not control the government. Keeping them in check is the right thing to do given their current development level of socialism.
They’re not using Uyghur slaves in their factories?
That’s a new one, so far I have only heard about how they are being genocided. Which you can debunk with a little bit of research: Arab League’s visit to Xinjiang rejects Western accusations of ethnic genocide, religious persecution.
They’re not trying to literally erase Taiwan off the maps?
LMAO, no. Taiwan is part of China, why would China want to erase part of itself off the map? Even the US agrees. The only thing China wants is proper reunification with Taiwan.
They’re not still censoring information about their horrific pasts?
What “horrific past”? Be specific, this vague stance achieves nothing. If you’re talking about Tiananmen Square, here’s a good video about that: The Tiananmen Square “Massacre” Never Happened.
They’re not targeting, retaliating against and kidnapping protestors domestic and abroad?
Again, provide a damn source, I have no idea of what you’re talking about and it is something I never saw anyone claim before.
What I can do tho is bring into attention the names of a few people like Huey P. Newton being killed by the US government and Snowden having to seek asylum abroad after blowing the whistle on the US surveillance state for the world to see. And if that’s not enough, how about Pro-Palestinian protesters clash with US police on second night of DNC and New Report Details How Pro-Palestinian Protests Are Suppressed in Democratic Countries.
They’re not censoring virtually every US social website entirely from the entire country?
No they are not, Microsoft operates in China. Not only that, but they do not explicitly want to simply ban US sites on there, it’s a simple matter of national sovereignty where companies like Facebook and Google refuse to abide by Chinese law, so China simply developed all their tools in-house. Not only that, but Chinese citizens have access to VPNs and can easily access websites abroad that are not usually allowed in China.
Meanwhile the US banned Huawei and tried to ban TikTok when it became apparent they could not control it and that the people were seeing the US for what it truly is, a genocidal state funding Israel in it’s attempt to genocide the Palestinian people.
The last link I posted is a proxy on 12ft.io since The Intercept won’t allow to see the page without registering.
The US is in the process of deporting all its migrants and threatening invasions on half the world.
I get that gringos don’t want to own up to their complicity by inaction but you oughta stop pontificating about how other governments are worse. Unless they’re called Israel, they weren’t before and they sure as fuck aren’t now.
Get fucked, racist.
Lmaooo hurting gringos feelings is being racist? Y’all have had concentration camps for longer than you’ve been without them, you know their fucking addresses and they’re still there.
Do forgive me for throwing y’all’s opinions on racism in the dustbin.
You cannot be a serious leftist and pretend to be offended by a little “anti-white” rhetoric.
Based on what? The US imprisons more people, kills more people, tortures more people. The only way to argue that China is more oppressive is basically to start with the assumption they are and then work backwards to justify it.
I listed a handful of reasons above, of which no one has denied or refuted. Just downvoted.
Actually you didn’t. You listed a bunch of accusations against China (which were refuted, you just ignored that), but you didn’t even try to explain how that’s more oppressive than the USA. Even if all your accusations were true, the US is still more oppressive.
I see you are sticking with the pack here and going with generic denial and ignoring my arguments rather than actually refuting them.
now we’ve got another refutopolis warrior.
What does that even mean?
That doesn’t affect people not in china or not bordering china.
that’s pure ideology.
Strawmanning the open source federated social media enthusiast crowd as unaware fans of meta?
As a US citizen, I prefer services that US consumer protections could apply to. (While we still have them, ahem.) I know that Chinese laws will not protect me from things a Chinese business does in China.
(What’s with the rude replies? Did I fail to notice what instance I’m on or something?)
As a chauvinist
Ftfy
This makes me sad, that we can’t engage in civil discussion about this. Why did you assume and not ask questions? Be curious, not judgmental.
To me it’s a question of laws. The laws of the U.S. at least somewhat constrain the people of my own country, and can prevent them from working against their own citizens. Like me.
Please be kind when replying.
Fuck civility, its a tool of oppression
That sinophobia isn’t going to stoke itself!
Pathetic
Western authorities have been harvesting data for a few decades from social media so any complaint that singles out Chinese apps doing the same is obviously rooted in sinophobia.
The fact you think my joking about racists doing that is pathetic shows which side of that assertion you fall.
My content on here speaks for it self… Dear
rAyCIsM 🤡
The response the deepseek has been so transparent and cliched .
I thought more of Mashable. , but I suppose it’s good when they show you who they really are
I’m not American so they are indeed a foreign actor.
Nope you can’t run chatgpt locally.
but it’s a foreign actor so OOooooOOWwwwooOOOO sCaRrRey!
I love that people think this is a solid own. Lest we forget Hong Kong, or an impending hot war in Taiwan or building out extradition systems with an expanding network of countries to forcibly repatriate and torture dissidents and human rights lawyers.
You used to not have to explain why authoritarianism was bad.
Edit: I would love to know the Pro side of what happened in Hong Kong, or the forced extradition regime, since evidently I’m clearly in the wrong in thinking those were bad. What am I missing?
It used to not be necessary because democracies used to have moral authority but since the revelations of Manning and Snowden non-Americans see no difference between giving our data to the USA or to China or any other. We also know from the reaction to the war in Ukraine and Gaza that human rights claims are only sometimes used.
or an impending hot war in Taiwan
When you can’t even find things that China actually has done to complain about, so you have to start complaining about things they haven’t done.
Anti terrorism is good, actually. I don’t support people kicking seniors for speaking mandarin to try to bully a government into not prosecuting murderers in the mainland, which was the reason the protests happened (that and Washington money)
This “China’s AI is taking your data and that’s bad” is shockingly similar to “TikTok is taking your data and that’s bad”. Lots of US counterparts do the same thing, but I don’t see (as much) media coverage about that.
Don Draper: “no no no, everyone else’s cigarettes are dangerous. Lucky Strikes are… toasted.”
The way I think of it is, I don’t live in China, so regardless of my objections to their values or human rights abuses, why would CCP or an affiliated company care about me or ruin my life on the basis of or by abusing my data? A big part of why I care about privacy is I don’t want to be filtering my every thought through consideration of whether the powers that be would approve, and US companies are way more relevant to that.
Sell to the highest bidder
These the excuses you start to make when you’re losing. Not looking great for the US…
This is probably only a problem with the online version. In contrast to google and openAI they, like meta, let you download the model and run it offline, where they can’t access any of this data I presume.
I’ve been running it locally using ollama, works completely offline, no keystroke data for anyone!
Yeah I scan logs and so far nothing… I still don’t trust them but I can’t tell shit either
Just use little snitch, open snitch or simple wall depending on your operating system and block the outbound connection if one ever occurs
portmaster?
I heard about little snitch, is there any benefit to it v portmaster in your opinion, off the cuff type thing?
Oh little snitch was just what I used when macOS was my main operating system. When I switched to windows I started using simple wall and I just recently was poking around for a Linux solution and I found open snitch
Right, the offline version (if you have the hardware to run it) is completely under your control, and no one can take that away from you. Honestly nice to see that happen, I thought it would take several years.
Anyone using DeepSeek as a service the same way proprietary LLMs like ChatGPT are used is missing the point. The game-changer isn’t that a Chinese company like DeepSeek can compete with OpenAI and its ilk—it’s that, thanks to DeepSeek, any organization with a few million dollars to train and host their own model can now compete with OpenAI.
On-prem vs. Cloud, basically. On-prem just magically got cheaper.
Onprem has always been cheaper. Cloud compute was the most successful marketing campaign I can think of.
Not when it’s about LLMs.
Or open source groups can make a fully open repro of it: https://github.com/huggingface/open-r1
I’d like to look into that, how can I train an existing model further?
I’m only playing around with ollama, but like to do a bit more - mostly just to fulfill my needs to understand things - but have no idea where to start
You’re going to have to learn python.
Here’s a good overview: https://huggingface.co/docs/transformers/training
Python is not a problem
SW Dev is my job. Just never had real contact with AI before, besides playing around a bit.Thank you very much for the link!!
Edit: thank you very much again, that was pretty much exactly what I was looking for.
Don’t know how I missed to checkout huggingface. Thought of it always just as a github for models and didn’t bother checking for docs…
But that’s a great intro with simple tools/tutorials to get a grip on it, thanks!
They all do this…
Don’t use hosted models unless you pay for your own server space and it is encrypted.
Don’t be a fucking idiot.
They all store data on Chinese servers?
🤡
Unironically quite a lot of them probably do because it’s probably cheap and they have a fiduciary duty to the shareholders to gEt ThE bEsT dEaL!
No.
As opposed to Microsoft, Google, … NSA, or GCHQ servers. Or all of the above.
Yeah, but these are wholesome domestic spy agencies that are just looking after you and protect you from yourself.
Fuck. They told me that they were storing my backups.
[stellar wind has never left the chat]
“We store the information we collect in secure servers located in the People’s Republic of China”
Now you Americans know how we Europeans feel when Google, Amazon and Facebook store our information on American servers. Hint: The protective wall between Chinese servers and their government are about as good as the one between American servers and their government - at least for non-US citizens. The last thin veil of privacy for Eurpeans has been ripped to shreds by Trump last week.
The last thin veil of privacy for Eurpeans has been ripped to shreds by Trump last week.
What did he do? I know Trump does not like the GDPR, but did he sign something affecting it last week?
He killed the EU-US Data Privacy Framework. Theoretically, no company is allowed to transfer data of European citizens to US-based servers anymore. Sadly, Ursula von der Leyen is lacking the balls to act on this.
Thanks, I did not know. I think you are referring to this: https://www.freevacy.com/news/noyb/trumps-actions-to-dismantle-pclob-threatens-eu-us-data-transfers/6088
To be completely honest… as an European I would be happy if they actually did make it so that no EU-US data transfer were allowed… we need to stop depending on all these US-based services… but like you said, they probably don’t have the balls to pull the plug. Which makes me wonder if that board was actually really any protection at all for privacy or it had always been an empty shell used as an excuse on both sides just to keep up appearances and maintain the plug on.
I honestly think this could be a win for us. Worst case scenario, nothing really changes but some masks fall off and at least some people would stop acting under false pretense (which could open the doors for change). So I’m actually glad he did that.
Run it locally then
Thanks, managed to have it installed locally bia pocket pal (termux was giving me errors constantly on compile). Out of curiosity, I made a very “interesting” prompt, and frankly I am not even surprised
EDIT: decided to be a little spicier, didn’t fail to amuse me
This is mildly pedantic but you’re not actually running Deepseek R1, you’re running a 7B version of Qwen that’s been fine-tuned on Deepseek R1 outputs. All of the “distilled” models are existing models trained on R1.
Nice catch. I’ll be sure after do run the real thing
If you don’t know what you are doing please stop trying to act like an expert in the subject.
When did they claim to be an expert??
That so edgy, man. I bet all the girls in your high school think you’re the raddest.
Did the American technology giants think they had the monopoly on capturing human input too?
My gym sock captures human input too.
That’s human output surely?
I input it into the sock.
I’m confused. Isn’t “collecting keystroke data” just an alarmist way to describe text entry?
This is the full paragraph:
We collect certain device and network connection information when you access the Service. This information includes your device model, operating system, keystroke patterns or rhythms, IP address, and system language. We also collect service-related, diagnostic, and performance information, including crash reports and performance logs. We automatically assign you a device ID and user ID. Where you log-in from multiple devices, we use information such as your device ID and user ID to identify your activity across devices to give you a seamless log-in experience and for security purposes.
It looks to me that they are using it to identify the user uniquely, maybe also related to captcha to prevent bots (it’s common practice to capture mouse and keyboard while resolving captchas to see if the movement is human-like).
Looks like there are more things I need to start randomizing and injecting with noise.
Maybe. They could also be doing things like paying attention to input cadence and typos/pre-send typo corrections to use as part of a fingerprint associated with the identifying information a user gives them when creating an account so that they can then attempt to detect the user elsewhere on the web whether they are using an identifying account or not.
This argument applies to literally every single web app you use.
So, basically using Facebook technology in their AI app?
You’ll hear no arguments from me on that point, US tech companies are toxic af.
How far we’ve come
this. i mean, the session logs for the prompt are kept at least for your user, right?
Not exactly. Timing between key presses can be used to identify people.
lol no. only the sounds of the keys can identify the keyboard’s model
The goal is not to identify keyboard model. The goal is to identify person. And people tend to have something called habbits.
the chance of this is almost zero. if you are a dangerous cybercriminal, they will track your device down by a networking solution, wait until you leave it unattended and install a hardware-based spy device and capture evidence. No fbi agent will fuck around with keyboard sounds or movie bs like that
with keyboard sounds
Ok, I see you are intentionally going in circles.
I am literally so paranoid I regularly vary my keysteoke rhythms and explore polyrhytmic techniques to create variations. Not even joking.
Yes.
Not usually. Keystroke info is different than text input, like if you didn’t click onto any field and typed it would only be captured if keystroke are all being grabbed. It’s especially scary if you keep the app running in the bg and then type something and it still captures it. Not saying they’re doing that, but the privacy policy says they might.
The rhythm part is annoying, it’s commonly used to ID people even through things like ad blocks and dns blocks. Could also (in theory) be used to capture what people are typing just by hearing how they type.
If you think the American companies do anything different you’re not paying attention and simply believing the propaganda.
Chinese company does what American companies have done for 25+ years now!
Is it time for REAL data privacy laws or are we just gonna keep playing whack-a-mole with Chinese tech companies that get us nowhere?
Our data’s just too valuable for these parasites. Data privacy laws may eventually pass to compel software companies to store everything in US servers only.
Excellent Point. If that’s the case though, then wouldn’t other countries follow suit which still limits big tech’s reach and makes them less profitable and less powerful? Idk. Guess we’ll see how it plays out. Either way, I’m staying as far from those ecosystems as possible to at least try to mitigate some of what they do. I’ll never be totally successful, genie is put of the bottle, but we can at least attempt.
This article is what US propaganda looks like folks. Mashable should be ashamed.
Literally all AI companies do this to run their services. Except you can actually download Deepseek and run it completely securely on your own devices. You know who doesn’t allow that security? OpenAI and the other US companies currently being screwed.
At least its not stored on american servers.
I feel like Meta could do a ton more damage with my information than Tencent
