The CCP, the RNC, and the DNC are not your friends.
Vote your conscience. Always remember to see who’s funding who, who will gain, and who will lose. There are better choices than others, even when confronted by only bad choices.
Yeah, you can call yourself a leftist all you want, but when 90% of your posts is calling Biden and Zelensky Nazis but you never criticize Putin or Trump, I get certain doubts.
You forgot the genocide denial as well. I don’t understand why they worship Russia like the ussr is still around.
Anarchists didn’t like the fucking USSR either.
Right? They react with appropriate frustration when someone denies the Holocaust happened, but then deny Holodomor with the exact same rhetoric as the Holocaust deniers.
Oop im feeling it, gotta worship Russia now.
. Wanna hit?
Posting about Trump or Putin being bad would be akin to making posts about ISIS being bad: it goes without saying.
Like 99% of people on this platform already agrees with you, it’s really not a contentious issue. There’s no significant MAGA or Russian nationalist instance federated. None of their supporters would see it, it would be a completely moot point.
Oh how I wish that was true. Unfortunately I’ve seen far too many people support Russia in this war, both offline and online, including here.
Maybe I’m wrong about hexbear, I certainly hope that I am, but on lemmygrad I saw long posts with many upvotes explaining how this war is a good thing and Putin is a hero that is fighting against the capitalists etc.
Edit: and now lemmygrad had Hunter’s laptop on the front page. Could they be any more obvious?
Edit2: lol, you almost had me believing that I was wrong and just too paranoid. Then in this very thread I got two people from hexbear telling me how NATO and Ukraine are evil, heavily upvoted. Still nothing bad about either Trump or Putin. Thanks.
Right, but if you made a post about how Putin is a great leader or Republicans have better policies and child labour, homophobia and lower taxes on the rich are good on Hexbear you’re going to get shat on in the comments if not outright banned.
Criticizing NATO is more pressing because online discourse is extremely pro-NATO. Reddit, for example, loves NATO expansion and loved when Finland joined. None of the disdain for NATO is praise for Putin being a corrupt nationalist.
Also anything involving Hunter Biden is funny. He’s just an obscenely offbeat person. While the Trump children (except Tiffany and for now Barron) are just slimy sycophants trying to gain daddy’s approval while swindling money out of MAGA morons, Hunter is doing cocaine and sleeping with prostitutes. Its never really in our discourse for anti-Biden posts to criticize Hunter, he’s become a micro celebrity in his own right. If anything we literally like Hunter better than Joe
Still nothing bad about either Trump or Putin.
Its because we don’t have to convince y’all that Trump and Putin are bad because you already think that. We’d just be spitting into an echo chamber, preaching to the choir. There’s no point. To be clear we dunk on Trump all the time. We do not like him.
Why do you think that leftists have to say “but also btw Trump is also bad” every time we criticize Biden? That would make no sense.
We had a user who would uncritically support Russia and Operation Z. A “Z poster”, if you will. They were banned on several accounts and no one really missed them.
Some of us tepidly support the CPRF, which is largely controlled opposition. We recognize that counting since 2014, there’s a lot of propaganda, civilian strikes, and land mines coming from both sides. Most of us favor an immediate armistice along the present LOC that follows pretty closely a “dividing line” for the plurality ethnicity as evidenced by the past 30 years of linguistic, electoral, and poling data. And we favor quick peace as opposed to continued hostility that likely will go nowhere.
It sucks that Ukraine’s self-determination is being jeopardized by Russia. It sucks that Luhansk’s self-determination is being jeopardized by Ukraine. It sucks that there’s a geopolitical standoff between the two strongest military powers that overlays this. It sucks that the only imaginable ruling party in Russia is a reactionary capitalist one that was ushered in by Clinton’s intervention. And it sucks that they’re all probably just going to die in a field to resolve it, and make the situation in Bosnia look like a vacation resort in comparison.
There is a silver lining in that we are seeing a great power struggle to subjugate its neighbor, and also in that the wearing down of NATO and Russia allows the less belligerent, more progressive, emerging superpower to have more sway in the world. Some might say that makes it “worth it” but I certainly don’t.
Most of us favor an immediate armistice along the present LOC
This is uncritically supporting the Z operation. It rewards the attacker and gives them absolutely no reason to not try again in 10 years (either in the same country or in another one). It’s also what happened in 2014 and you see the results of that now.
Would you favor an immediate armistice with the Nazis in 1943? I surely hope not, but that would be a quick peace, very much like what the advocate for now.
I’m not sure you know the meaning of the word uncritical but go off.
Also, just so we’re on the same page, what do you believe happened in 2014 and what has happened since then until Feb 2022? What political and demographic conditions do you believe set the stage for the conflict that has been going on since then?
Your comparison to WW2 in 1943 is also wildly off. For one, you’ve got it mixed up which side is wearing the Nazi insignia and celebrating Nazi collaborators and enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust. For another, the USSR turned the war around in 1943. It would make no sense to call for armistice when you’re winning. Ukraine is currently stalled and bleeding manpower and materiel. The counteroffensive is all but done, were it not for Western insistence that fighting continues to the last Ukrainian.
For one, you’ve got it mixed up which side is wearing the Nazi insignia and celebrating Nazi collaborators and enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust.
I don’t know, which side are Wagner and Rogozin on?
For another, the USSR turned the war around in 1943. It would make no sense to call for armistice when you’re winning. Ukraine is currently stalled and bleeding manpower and materiel. The counteroffensive is all but done, were it not for Western insistence that fighting continues to the last Ukrainian.
USSR was just as stalled in early 1943, bleeding manpower and materiel, getting massive war supplies from the USA, and the West was insisting that fighting continues to the last Russian. Sounds familiar?
I don’t know, which side are Wagner and Rogozin on?
Okay but can you actually name institutional promotion of nazism? For example publishing celebrations of Bandera, putting the OUN trident on old soviet monuments, funding neonazi run youth camps, etc?
I’m guessing you can’t because while there are certainly Nazi Russians they’ve also tried to suppress any sort of Nazi organizing within Russia. The state is hostile to organized Nazism unlike Ukraine.
To be clear, theyre still a right wing neoliberal hellscape, but it is a low bar to clear and one clears it.
While it should go as without saying I think it’s pretty hard to take it that way when the following statements get made a) The legitimate Ukraine government was overthrown in a NATO croup, b) Ukraine government is a neo-nazi government, c) DPR and LPR are legitimate countries and d) NATO started the war in Ukraine. Every single one of those is a Russian state propagated talking point, all of them made around nuggets of facts (like the leaked chat where some US officials were discussing who should or shouldn’t be in the new government) but ultimately warped into something that can’t definitely be proven true or false. Thus whoever spreads those talking points wants to believe those statements as true, which begs the question of why to believe they’re true.
a) The legitimate Ukraine government was overthrown in a NATO croup, b) Ukraine government is a neo-nazi government, c) DPR and LPR are legitimate countries and d) NATO started the war in Ukraine. Every single one of those is a Russian state propagated talking point, all of them made around nuggets of facts
So, theyre all Russian talking points but theyre also all supported by evidence?
This is a thing that annoys me about liberal conceptions of bias. Everything is biased, the question is how factual things are.
(like the leaked chat where some US officials were discussing who should or shouldn’t be in the new government)
Yes, this is what we call discussing who should be in the puppet government. You’ll note that they kept the moderate “we should be nuetral between the US and Russia” organizers out and brought the nazis in.
I don’t think I could ever make you believe that we came to these conclusions based on an analysis of world history, economics, and the current geopolitical reality and didn’t need any help from Yuri at the FSB.
You literally don’t understand how we analyze geopolitics.
“The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.”
Of course you can’t, because there’s nothing you can provide except your belief that it is the way you want to believe.
That’s nice.
Feel free to provide proof.
Literally posted 3 articles yesterday criticising trump but go off.
Trump isn’t in power, no one is defending Putin, the US set the stage for the invasion and knew exactly how it would play out. Trying to claim they are defending their right to sovereignty, which is bullshit.
no one is defending Putin, the US set the stage for the invasion
That has to be the shortest contradiction.
Its not a contradiction, several politicians, Biden included, spoke of what would happen if the US threatened NATO expansion into Ukraine. Obama, McCain, Kerry, Nuland, and now Biden set the stage for Ukraine to get invaded. Claiming it was to protect democracy which is bullshit. If the US cared about democracy and sovereignty they wouldn’t have orchestrated a coup with the Pakistanian PM.
This war is 100% about decimating Ukraine so capitalists can go in and divide the spoils.
Sure buddy. NATO was responsible for countries wanting to join NATO to forestall Russian invasions.
NATO was also responsible for all of Russia’s other post-USSR invasions, I bet.
Life must be interesting when you don’t understand history or politics.
Straight from the horses mouth
Must be interesting when you are completely fucking clueless outside the official narrative.
I mean, you’d know lol, with an unbiased source like theconservative.com lol. The people who are defending Russia. And you’re just eating it up.
I’m betting you made a judgment based on what you thought the website was. The website was theCONVERSATION.com. But go ahead and stick to your echo chamber and stay ignorant
No one is defending Russia or Putin? They sure as shit are trying to smoke screen it hard.
The person I replied to was talking about leftists. The only one talking about right wingers is you
The comment was about defending Russia and Putin. You said no one was, you were wrong. Right wingers are the ones doing that, so I showed receipts, to prove you are wrong. Sorry reality upsets you.
Also you literally linked a source to theconservative.com, you can’t make this stuff up.
I linked to theCONVERSATION.com. Your echo chamber reactionary thinking has you seeing things that are not there.
So yes, you CAN just make things up
Lol ok bud, ignore everything said and focus on one small thing and yell about it. You’ve convinced me lol.
It’s not one small thing, it’s lots of big things
Yeah, it’s so strange that people confuse you with a Kremlin bot when you repeatedly spew the same fucking bullshit talking points as the bots themselves.
Sounds like something a CIA bot would say
K
How are you supposed to tell the difference?
Bruh Idk how you got convinced there are so many bots around. Like, sure, if you write off everything that differs from the nato line of thought as bots, then sure, believe what you want. But ti me that’s just absurd. I assume that people I interact with are actual humans, even if their opinions suck ass. But to be so far up your own ass, as to not even acknowledge that people can think other things than you without them being some evil, heinous bot is just fuckin stupid
Meanwhile, there are literally bots that easily replace humans.
Its weird that someones life is only dedicated to be negative about one thing. And especially because Russia and China love to manipulate and do everything to convince people that what they are doing is great, its not unlikely they are bots. Especially with LLM its very easy to create a realistic bot.Thinking that they are bots is more likely than not because of these facts.Well, I guess I shall stop my propaganda and just accept that there are literal communities that are hardcore china or russia fans because of the leftism.
There are reasons why Elon Musk doesn’t feel alone while having no gf. /j
Everyone is a bot everywhere. There are no people anymore!
I didn’t get “convinced there are so many bots around,” you absolute idiot. My point was only that if and when idiots like you use talking points that are identical to those coming out of Putin’s Kremlin, people can be forgiven for mistaking you for a bot.
What part about this do you not understand? How can I dumb it down enough for you?
You sound mad bot boy
Bot Detected.
I forgot how ignorant and self-righteous Reddit liberals were. The ones I’ve seen are easily the loudest and dumbest people on this network of federated instances. They have their “conviction” and “is wrong” sliders completely maxed out.
I swear to god I’ll buy sync premium if they give the ability to sort by controversial. This is the stupidest more redditesque thread I’ve run into and i don’t want to miss anymore.
Stop for the slop god
Your post is literally “DuMb LIbrhULS” with bonus noise. Self-projecting much?
You’re right I haven’t completely purged the liberal inside me and I hate myself for it being there still
spoiler
Since you can’t see the irony in your initial comment, let me spell it out for you in a way you might be able to understand:
You drone on about maxed convictions while being wrong. But, you’re literally doing the same thing that you whine pointlessly about: your original comment is nothing but a shitty, baseless generalized opinion about a large group of people, with zero substance.
But you keep fighting the fight, big dog!
Thank you so much for showing me that not every liberal I meet here will be ignorant and self-righteous. I can no longer say that has been the totality of my experience with them. I now have hope that my next encounter will be just as positive as this one was.
Is there a base case or do the layers of irony go on to infinity?
Person: says something
Another person: this other person has no nuance
Yet another person: this other person has no nuance, ironically
Yet another person: this other person has no nuance, ironically
(ad infinitum)
Maybe this is just dialectics, although a little snarky
Truly the pinnacle of Historical Materialism.
They are a hexbear user. All the content coming in from that instance is “DuMb LiBrUlS”
Woah there, you can’t forget about the Russia/China apologia as well
Says the natoid lmao
Two things can actually be bad at once you know. Understanding geo politics doesn’t mean support. The world isn’t a marvel movie.
I’ll take that over believing pig shit memes are reasonable discourse any day.
Make pig shit comments, get pig shit replies
I guess that’s why it’s so popular on hexbear. Thanks for clearing that up.
It does explain why you see it so much
spoiler
Funny I would say the sane about the Marxists here most of whom seem to only be educated through social media/forums and most of whom seem to have no formal education in sociology/anthropology/and most especially economics. The number of times where it becomes clear that a Marxist is arguing from a conclusion is too high to be ignored.
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Bad is the enemy of good, and right-wingers are bad.
I swear to god the next time tells me that BS I am going to shit myself, vomit, and cry.
There is a literal anti-Trans genocide in the US. That’s “The good” you’re defending.
Democrats are right wingers. And they’re worlds away from anything I’d call “good”
You’re so vain
You don’t think that this post is about you, do you?
properly
the strawman is “vote blue no matter who”
…
no, it’s vote blue whenever “red” is a literal dictator, who promises to be a dictator when elected, who tried a coup once already, who leads a fascist gop splinter group…
vote any fucking color against that shit, not no matter who.
there’s bad, and there’s barely distinguishable from hitler bad…
stop lyingno u
i haven’t seen a single “vote blue no matter who” since hillary…
yet i keep seeing it over and over again on lemmy, as an intentional misrepresentation of people who just want to stop drumpf…
well, mostly from hexbeer
Even im weirded out by how thoroughly the left was suppressed on reddit and other platforms. People on reddit only saw themselves mirrored and thought they were the only ones who existed.
What exactly is a liberal in this context? Is a social democrat a liberal? What about Jeremy Corbyn or Bernie Sanders?
Why are people hating on “liberals” more than conservatives?
This is why. Well, this is one of the reasons.
First, we have extremely few liberals in America. The Democratic party is mostly made up of people that would be best described as center-right anywhere else in the world. They don’t actually want to fight to roll back changes that Republicans make, and actually try to internally sabotage the few members that do want to undo changes the republicans make. They actively prevent change, and then active work against those who do want change all while professing to want change and to do their best to fight for it. But they’re lying, and people are catching on. People are even starting to realize that the whole “We’d do stuff for you if it wasn’t for that bad bad manchin, and Sinema” thing is as much of a lie, too.
The second reason that is more for the communists is something along the lines of the old joke “Scratch a liberal, and a fascist bleeds” Communists don’t like liberals (And the use of the word liberal is pretty different from the usage in the first case) because they view them as people that profess to want these better for others, until it requires any, even minor, amounts of sacrifice from the liberal. The whole Moderate Rebels thing in Syria? It was always a lie for one simple reason. Fighting is an extreme action. Moderates don’t fight, they just don’t. That’s one of the reasons they’re moderates. Liberals are like communists that aren’t willing to fight or do what is necessary to enact change.
I mean all the people arrested and rioting would disagree, but I imagine you’re more talking about our “liberal” politicians? In that case I would agree.
We have corporate shills that wave a Rainbow flag and we have corporate shills that wave a Confederate flag. Then we have like maybe 3 oddballs in all of government that might actually care about people.
A problem of definitions. The word ‘liberal’ has a whole bunch of meanings depending on who you ask. Someone farther on the left usually uses the term to describe people who claim to support freedoms and rights for everyone, but only as long as they themselves don’t have to sacrifice a thing. People who go out to riot and get arrested for it definitely fall outside of that group.
It has a correct meaning, and the meanings the ignorant use.
This presumes that fighting produces positive results and that isn’t always the case especially when “communists” are fighting. Cambodia saw no advantage by going “communist”
This but unironically.
Do you think pro-Trump Russian bots are building up anarchist/communist post histories to throw you off? Or that anarchists/communists are de facto Trump supporters by not voting blue no matter who?
I don’t go through people’s comment histories to try to validate them.
And there’s a shocking overlap in vernacular and memes between tankies and alt-right. Obviously they’re diametrically opposed on almost all issues. BUT neither really believe in good faith discussion, it’s mostly trolling and “dunking”. Mix in sarcasm that’s not obvious to an outsider, and the jokes are hard to tell apart from misinformation or “muddying the water”.
It’s way more present since Hexbear federated in, every first impression is that it’s an alt-right troll farm. After some interaction it gets clear quickly that it isn’t.
Just expect us normies to have that first impression.
Tankies when you don’t want your country to fall into fascism.
Tankies want there country’s to fall to fascism though they claim to be on the left but fallow a right wing extremist in putin and spout rightwing talking points
The only good reply to my comment. Get a tankie drunk and you’ll hear all you need to know they’re full of shit.
Just vote for the lesser of two fascisms
Now we just have to figure out which one that is
What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
There’s no practical difference, just window dressing. They both cheer on oppression and pain for those suffering under Republicans.
And don’t even get me started on communists. Left and right authoritarians, I’ve gotten death threats from both of them. Whether it’s some leftist telling me I would “get the wall” when the Revolution comes or some fucking Republican telling me that the US was only for Christians and that they’ll go after “traitors” soon, you get to the same fucking place at the end of the day. The only real difference is that there’s far more Republicans, and they’re far more organized than left authoritarians.
I will repeat this until the heat-death of the universe:
Personal liberty and self-determination are assailed by many threats: the theocrats, nihilists, corporatists, fascists, and so-called “collectivists”. They all claim to be the true authoritative “voice of the people”.
Extreme authoritarian “leftists”, A.K.A. “tankies” (i.e., apologists for Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the CCP, the DPRK, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Xi Jingping, etc.), are threats to a free, egalitarian, and open society, are just as violently authoritarian as their religious, corporatist, and fascist competitors, and should be treated with the contempt, distrust, and ridicule they deserve.
They claim to speak and fight for the proletariat, promising a new utopia, never before seen, once their revolution executes the last “class-traitor”. In practice, once they’re finished with “seizing the means of production”, they’ll never relinquish control and become the new ruling class. Beware of their cults. Understand what they really are; power over everything and everyone, forever, is what they seek. They want you either as a true believer (a willing pawn) or dead, just like all of the other supposedly benevolent dictators who promised utopias throughout history.
They’ll assume the mantle of an enlightened elite post-revolutionary administration to guide the proletariat to their promised utopia of “each according to their ability, to each according to their need”. In practice, "the party leadership needs the most, because they’re obviously the most able” in reorganizing the economic and political structure of society. The utopia of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” will never exist, only the dictatorship of the “revolutionary party”. Repression and execution await those who question their claims and decisions. These supposed champions of labor are really harbingers of death - of the mind and the body politic.
They’re akin to the pigs in Orwell’s Animal Farm, the loudest voices in the revolution, usurpers of a righteous cause, but a bit “more equal” than everyone else after the farmer is done away with. Fortunately, the pigs, like the farmer, got their comeuppance in the end of the story.
Make these pigs squeal.
I really want to know what you said before the communist told you that you deserved the wall
the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
we have one of those? what’s the name of the party?
the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
I might be misunderstanding you, so I apologize if that is the case, but if you are referring to the Democrats they are far from left leaning. They aren’t even center leaning.
You can’t even say they have a better track record than the Republicans. They bomb countries as much (or in recent years even more) than the Republicans. They advocate for wars. They fund ICE even more than the Republicans. They stand up just as much for reproductive rights (read: not at all). They just do all of it while waving a rainbow flag.
I really hope you meant the Greens or the CPUSA; which have their own issues but are certainly more left than either the Democrats or Republicans.
Whatever lies you need to tell yourself, I guess.
Lmao what a pathetic response
bOtH sIdEs
This is why libs get clowned on so hard. You claim to support “the only viable left leaning political party”, and yet you’re kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values. Remember, segregation wasn’t ended because black people voted, blood was spilt in the streets. Same with the LGBT community, see the stonewall uprising, aka, the first pride parade.
I don’t care how you vote, but if you can’t see the difference between an anarchist engaging in direct action against an oppressive state and fascists doing hate crimes; well, I’d say it’s time to get off your high horse and do a little introspection.
yet you’re kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values
Direct action is meaningless if you’re hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power. It doesn’t matter how many lit memes anarchists and communists share on social media and how much they horn on about “direct action,” this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.
You want me to do some introspection? I did. I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.
Direct action is meaningless if you’re hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power.
Spoken like someone who’s never done organizing, participated in protests or any other direct action. You’re a keyboard warrior who’s probably never even interacted with a socialist IRL.
this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.
Not a democracy and also I already gave 2 examples showing the contrary.
I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.
No need to be a condescending dick. I’m also guessing I’m older than you, not that it’s relevant.
I’ve participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.
No need to be a condescending dick.
If you don’t want someone to take offense at what you write, don’t smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.
Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.
Right… I’m not sure why you think I’m not in favor of organized resistance.
If you don’t want someone to take offense at what you write, don’t smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.
You were doing a “both sides” between anarchists and fascists, eerily similar to Trump, while claiming to be “left leaning”. I think my response was warranted, if not understated. But frankly, that’s plain ignorant.
Like I said, attempting to degrade the only left leaning political coalition means someone is hostile to any sort of positive left leaning activism. If that doesn’t describe a given anarchist, then what I said doesn’t apply to them. If it does, then they might as well be a Trumpster.
Who or what is this sole “left leaning political coalition”? If you’re referring to Democrats they are neither left leaning nor a coalition. They are a center-right political party. Coalition implies multiple parties. And the Democratic party isn’t exactly known for activism, unless you’re counting fundraising events.
I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward.
Did you actually do any studying about socialism during this phase, or is this the “Che Guevara T-Shirt” socialism I’ve heard so much about?
We both know it wasn’t even Che Guevara T-Shirt socialism. It was definitely “I think the nordic model is pretty cool” socialism.
this is a democracy
You mean like the 2000 election?
They must mean that referendum we had to overturn Roe v. Wade, or the one that got us universal healthcare
This is delusional. Direct action absolutely has its place, but all the things you mentioned were ultimately won at the ballot box. As it should be. Don’t let a childish revolution fetish blind you to what constitutes a viable framework for lasting progress.
Edit - “Has.” As in he has a ball. Or she has a textbook.
It’s funny how libs think they can tell me when direct action is necessary, and it’s always in the past tense, never in the present.
It’s funny when ML thinks they are the only leftists
the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
If you mean the Democrats (which you must to say ““viable””) you are too lost in the sauce.
“Come on guys, we should back the Strassers. They aren’t perfect but come on!”
This comment is giving me so much whiplash.
I was sure it was gonna be ironic when they started comparing anarchists to fascists, but fun fact: no, they actually mean it. Anarchists are fascists, everyone. You’ve heard it here first!
I swear, if there’s something liberals hate more than what’s on their right, it’s what’s on their left.
Vibes based politics is endemic among liberals. We try to help them but it’s mostly futile.
What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
What party in the US is even left-adjacent? The dems still firmly support the police, Israel, massive corporations, prolonging the war in Ukraine. Their actions in Iraq alone should prevent them from ever being considered a party that serves the working class.
TIL you have to endorse letting the Ukrainians fall to fascist imperialism to be on the left
No no, we want NATO out of Ukraine
And damn what the Ukrainians want!
“the Ukrainians” are not a monolith. You may be aware that a civil war raged for 8 years before Russia invaded?
TIL you have to endorse letting the Ukrainians ethically cleanse the Donbass and Crimea to be on the left
All US aid to ukraine is doing is making the war longer and bloodier. Have you seen what Ukraine has been bombing? It’s apartment buildings, gas stations and civilians. (Russia isn’t better on that front, they bombed a literal kindergarten this week). If this war keeps up, all of Ukraine and Southern Russia will end up like Bakhmut. US aid isn’t enough to win, only to continue the bloodshed.
What’s the actual genuine alternative then where Ukraine doesn’t have to fight to free it’s territory from Russia? A ceasefire is worthless as Russia will build up forces again and just attack, trying to set out what it tried to do for years, take Ukraine under Russian control. And then people such as yourselves will then be criticising Ukraine and the west again when they put up another fight. Ukraine can’t win in your eyes.
I’ve been following the war since February last year and it’s been day after day after day of Russians explicitly targeting civilians, literally machine gunning them down in the streets, shooting at cars with tanks, raping and murdering them, targeted rocket attacks at hospitals, apartment blocks, places where people are trying to seek refuge from the war, stealing Ukrainian children and sending them to Russia, the list just goes on and on. There maybe unfortunate collateral damage from Ukrainian forces, there always is sadly in any war, but it’s highly unlikely that Ukraine are targeting the very people they’re trying to liberate.
US aid isn’t enough to win, only to continue the bloodshed.
That’s a strong argument for the US to drastically increase its aid or even get involved to end the war very quickly. The US and its allies would very likely have the war over within weeks if not literally days. That would be a win win right? No more bloodshed like you said. No more hundreds of Ukrainian or Russian soldiers lives wasted. Ukraine gets it’s territory back. The genocidal Russian imperialists get pushed back to their own borders.
You’re working from a number of false premises - Like the people in the DPR and LPR don’t want to be part of Ukraine, because the Galacian fascists who control the government in Kiev won’t stop trying to kill them. What about the self-determination of people not to be slaughtered by Banderite fascist death squads? What about the self-determinations of Crimeans to finally break with Ukraine after trying for thirty years? Ahh, you will say, but those elections weren’t real, so I can say that no one in any of those regions actually wants to be free of the violence directed at them by hte Rada.
ANd I could go on and on and on but you know what the truth is and you know I’m a lying tankie and blah blah blah we’ve all done this dance before.
Ukraine is winning the war, fash.
Nice cope
Just like they won back Bakhmut.
Also, you are the one backing the US above every single socialist project. You are the one who tolerates imperialism because it’s blue. You are the one bothsidesing leftists and fascists. Every single one of your accusations is a confession.
Bakhmut was a unequivocal Ukranian victory, what are you talking about?
Ok fash
You tell these commies bro, our hero Zeleksny has already sworn to led the white race to victory
What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
Left leaning? According to who or what? If you said socially progressive there might be a point here, but the democratic party is no where near left wing. And the social progressiveness only serves to take advantage of those being oppressed in order to win votes. It’s hollow, and when people start losing rights (like women and abortion) the Democrats will make 500 excuses about why they can’t do anything, instead of actually doing something. The democratic party serves as a ratchet to kill and absorb left wing movements and keep the acceptable discourse within the sphere of economic liberalism.
I’m begging Americans to read literally anything about their political system from a non American, non Eurocentrist perspective. Begging. I’ll start by linking some here.
The specific combination of factors in the historical formation of U.S. society—dominant “biblical” religious ideology and absence of a workers’ party—has resulted in government by a de facto single party, the party of capital. The two segments that make up this single party share the same fundamental liberalism. Both focus their attention solely on the minority who “participate” in the truncated and powerless democratic life on offer. Each has its supporters in the middle classes, since the working classes seldom vote, and has adapted its language to them. Each encapsulates a conglomerate of segmentary capitalist interests (the “lobbies”) and supporters from various “communities.”
American democracy is today the advanced model of what I call “low-intensity democracy.” It operates on the basis of a complete separation between the management of political life, grounded on the practice of electoral democracy, and the management of economic life, governed by the laws of capital accumulation. Moreover, this separation is not questioned in any substantial way, but is, rather, part of what is called the general consensus. Yet that separation eliminates all the creative potential found in political democracy. It emasculates the representative institutions (parliaments and others), which are made powerless in the face of the “market” whose dictates must be accepted. Marx thought that the construction of a “pure” capitalism in the United States, without any pre-capitalist antecedent, was an advantage for the socialist struggle. I think, on the contrary, that the devastating effects of this “pure” capitalism are the most serious obstacles imaginable.
What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
There’s a viable left leaning political party in the US? What is it?
If the democrats truly are the only viable “left” option then the only reasonable course of action would be to burn the whole state apparatus down and start anew.
You won’t advocate for that of course because the fact is you don’t really care about things being better, you care about pretending to be on the moral high-ground, so vague platitudes about things getting better in the abstract you get from democrats is just enough for you, because you probably endure no economic hardship and politics is just an extension of sports to you.
The US has two right wing parties. Never mind nationally, I’ve had Democrat electeds oversee cops “sweeping” encampments just as brutally as any Republican would, what exactly is supposed to be the harm getting reduced here?
The Republican Party is blatantly fascist now. The next time the Republicans get the house, senate, and presidency, you can guarantee women and trans people will no longer have bodily autonomy nation wide. Children will be kidnapped from their lbgt parents and put into the system. All social safety nets will be gutted. Democracy will be eliminated. If they let public education still exist, it will just be used for job training and indoctrination of fascist ideology. They will shoot immigrants at the border instead of just laying traps. They will expand the mass incarceration program to make room for the dissidents and utilize them for more slave labor in prisons.
Basically, the U.S. will become Russia.
What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
Sorry which party is this? Dems are not even a remotely left-leaning party. Joe Biden literally criminalized the rail workers using their legal right to strike.
This is also like a children’s picture book-level of understanding of fascism. As if the Dems’ policy of 4 more years of the status quo could prevent fascism at all. That has literally never worked as a way to combat fascism.
Joe Biden literally criminalized the rail workers using their legal right to strike.
And then used his platform and office to force the rail companies to address their concerns. You fucks are so dishonest
No he fuckin did not, the rank and file wanted 14 days, the rank and file pushed for a strike, which union leadership did not want, the rank and file did not vote to sabotage their striking rights, Biden and the Capitalists wanted 0 days and no strike, the Squad “wanted” 7 days and were willing to sacrifice the right to strike despite knowing perfectly well the 7 days bill would die in the Senate
4 days is an insulting crumb to incentivize workers from not engaging in unauthorized slowdown measures, sick and tired of you Blue MAGA slugs
Do you have over four sick days a year? If so, shut the fuck up. You know four days is nothing, why are you defending him?
A bad deal that didn’t get close to meeting the unions demands is not “addressing their concerns”
Is your issue with anarchists or authoritarians? I somehow doubt that anarchists are sending you death threats. Nor do I see anarchists kneecapping the Democrats. Anarchists don’t want a state, though many do vote for the moderate right-wing (not “left leaning”) Democrats simply because they think it’s the right thing to do.
Your sweeping generalizations and attempts to paint all of us with the same brush betray your own lack of knowledge, but don’t worry, I’m sure the planet will last long enough for the Democrats’ slow incremental change, and I’m sure my family in border camps are very thankful to be in liberal concentration camps.
I mean, a lot of “leftists” are pro Russia…
Pro-Soviet (no longer exist) ≠ pro modern Russia
Against continued war in Ukraine ≠ pro Russia
Pro-Soviet
Okay. But that’s worse. You do know that’s worse, right?
It is?
Remind me during the cold war, which countries were on the side of pro independence anti colonial movements in Africa, and which countries were pro colonisation and pro apartheid? I’ll think you’ll find that more often than not, the USSR was on the side of anti colonial independence movements, and that the US and Western Europe were on the side of the pro colonial forces.
Even if the USSR only supported anti colonial movements out of pure self interest and cynicism, it’s a hell of a lot better than supporting colonialism and neocolonialism like the USA and Western Europe did back then during the cold war.
Westerners have never forgiven the soviet union for saving them from fascism.
How? The USSR was the greatest point in history for all it’s member states.
pro-socialism is worse than pro-fascism?
Go away Hexbear propagandist.
What is worse, a brutal authoritarian empire which tries to occupy Eastern Europe and Central Asia or one that actually does it?
Take a deep breath. As someone who’s been in your shoes, this may not click right away.
Every single thing you’ve ever heard, learned, watched, or read about another country that was ever an enemy of the united states has been some version of an exaggeration or a lie. You live in the most intense propaganda machine that has ever been created. You live in the most intense surveillance state that’s ever been created. You live in the biggest, richest empire that has ever been created.
- What made the USSR brutal?
- What made the USSR authoritarian?
- Are you willing to apply the same standards to all countries?
The Soviet Empire directly occupied every constituent “Republic” as colonies, as well as occupied the Warsaw Pact countries as satellite vassals, and used military force to put down any rebellion from their puppet nations in the Warpac. They denied the people any say in government, subverted unions into agents of the state instead of advocates for the workers, and systematically crushed any domestic political dissent using secret police.
As to whether I’m okay with consistently applying that? Sure. The last time the US fought a military conflict in order to annex a nation into empire was 1902. The Soviets did it consistently throughout their empire’s existence.
Much of what you’re claiming is undermined by the fact that the vast majority of Soviet people voted to keep the USSR. How could that have happened if people had no say in the government, and if the SSRs were just colonies? It’s also undermined by facts like the early USSR letting some former Russian vassals become independent (e.g., Finland), successive Soviet constitutions granting more and more power to SSRs and national groups, and the steady rise in living conditions under the USSR/the sharp decline in living conditions after its dissolution.
And if you’re serious about applying those same standards to every country, you’d see the U.S. as one of the most evil countries in the world. Our treatment of black Americans and American Indians was literally a model for the Nazis, and eclipses the scale and severity of even the most fevered anti-communist propaganda. We’ve fought wars of aggression all over the Global South. We’ve strangled popular anti-colonial movements in their crib and kept them down by backing murderous dictators. We illegally monitor as much of our citizens’ communications as possible, have extrajudicially assassinated opposition leaders, have attempted to blackmail opposition leaders into killing themselves, violently repress even peaceful left-wing protests (while providing police escorts for Klan rallies and Proud Boys), hell, the Chicago PD was running a black site torture operation.
But I’m guessing you don’t take that part seriously, otherwise you’d have questioned whether such an evil country – that’s militantly opposed every communist movement since before the USSR even existed – is a reliable source on the shortcomings of communist states.
I love this comment section
i dont, im so fucking tired of it already and it isnt even a US election year
edit: wow what a surprise, out of my inbox, the only two msgs with people bitching at me are the replies in an inherently inflammatory political post. in response to a fairly innocuous comment too! this kind of bullshit is bad for the brain
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Clicks on an innately political post
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Whines about how political it is
in memes, yeah, odd
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I think the level of passion people feel about this is roughly equivalent to the level of gaslighting they’ve experienced by people who can’t fathom people to their left that they consider inferior not falling in line with their privileged positions
I love watching the left fight amongst themselves. Maybe they should try focusing on beating the other party.
