• Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    It doesn’t say they are automatically good, just that people have a negative connotation to the word Marxism even if the ideas are sound and good.

    • polonius-rex@kbin.run
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      3 months ago

      “people have a negative connotation to the word Marxism” absolutely has baked-in implications, and an argument left unsaid, even in total isolation

      if i say to you “people think the word nazi has negative connotations”, then even with no other context then obviously you’d conclude that i’m a nazi freak

      the post doesn’t make any justification for the ideas being sound and good, it says they sound good

      i don’t think this post’s subtext is as simple as the interpretation you’re providing

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        3 months ago

        if i say to you “people think the word nazi has negative connotations”, then even with no other context then obviously you’d conclude that i’m a nazi freak

        Good thing Nazism isn’t sound, nor does it sound good, even without the label.

        the post doesn’t make any justification for the ideas being sound and good, it says they sound good

        It does, actually. Marxism is popular and easily understood, yet red scare propaganda and anticommunism has given it a negative connotation. Eugenics and Nazism are not popular, and have bad connotations because they are bad ideas in general, not to mention Nazism being based on pure evil extermination.

        You’re not cooking here.

        • polonius-rex@kbin.run
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          3 months ago

          Good thing Nazism isn’t sound, nor does it sound good, even without the label.

          it was brought up to explain why “it’s just saying it has negative connotations” doesn’t make something neutral

          Marxism is popular and easily understood, yet red scare propaganda and anticommunism has given it a negative connotation

          you’re kind of just imagining a different post at this point?

          “it does, actually”? you’re going to have to clarify what you mean by “this post makes a justification as to why the concepts behind marxism are sound and good”, unless you mean that “people thinking the ideas sound good” is your justification, which you just argued a second ago wasn’t what the post was doing, and which is exactly what i’m saying is a junk justification

          “Marxism is popular” this post very specifically makes the point that marxism isn’t popular, but its ideas are. that’s like the whole point of the post

          also, “easily understood” what? we haven’t even defined what sort of marxism we’re talking about here

          it says nothing about the reasons for negative connotations; you’re adding that yourself

          Eugenics [is] not popular

          again, i’ve given two examples where the average person would probably support eugenics-in-description-only

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            3 months ago

            it was brought up to explain why “it’s just saying it has negative connotations” doesn’t make something neutral

            No, it was brought up to draw equivalence to Marxism, don’t play coy.

            you’re kind of just imagining a different post at this point?

            this post very specifically makes the point that marxism isn’t popular, but its ideas are. that’s like the whole point of the post

            No, Marxism is popular, it’s just sold as different names. Big difference.

            also, “easily understood” what? we haven’t even defined what sort of marxism we’re talking about here

            Is there some other kind we need to worry about here that’s hard to understand?

            again, i’ve given two examples where the average person would probably support eugenics-in-description-only

            No, you pretended the average person would.

            • polonius-rex@kbin.run
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              3 months ago

              No, it was brought up to draw equivalence to Marxism, don’t play coy.

              cool ur jets buddy

              it wasn’t, and doesn’t even really make sense when read through that lens

              what kind of person comes into a thread and posts a pro-communism video clip and then angrily equates marxism to nazism?

              No, Marxism is popular, it’s just sold as different names.

              that’s describing the same sentiment i just expressed using different words

              Is there some other kind we need to worry about here that’s hard to understand?

              honestly the term “marxism” is nebulous enough that just deciding on what counts as “in-scope” is kind of non-trivial

              are we talking about the economic theory? marxist communism? the whole body of marx’s work?

              what definition are you using?

              No, you pretended the average person would.

              i’m fairly confused what you’re trying to say here

              are you saying that that, for those two concepts, you don’t think you could pitch the basic ideas behind them in a way such that the average person would agree?

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                3 months ago

                cool ur jets buddy

                it wasn’t, and doesn’t even really make sense when read through that lens

                what kind of person comes into a thread and posts a pro-communism video clip and then angrily equates marxism to nazism?

                I dunno, why bring up the Nazis as though they had popular ideas?

                honestly the term “marxism” is nebulous enough that just deciding on what counts as “in-scope” is kind of non-trivial

                are we talking about the economic theory? marxist communism? the whole body of marx’s work?

                What parts of Marxism do you want to chop off? I am referring to the whole of Marxism, ie critique of Capitalism, philosophical grounding in Dialectical and Historical Materialism, and Communism.

                are you saying that that, for those two concepts, you don’t think you could pitch the basic ideas behind them in a way such that the average person would agree?

                Yes, people generally don’t agree with the ideas posed by Nazism.

                • polonius-rex@kbin.run
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                  3 months ago

                  I dunno, why bring up the Nazis as though they had popular ideas?

                  i didn’t and i’ve already clarified that?

                  i’m not sure what more there is to say on this

                  What parts of Marxism do you want to chop off?

                  if you’re referring to everything then that would include stuff like das kapital which i don’t think you can reasonably refer to as “easy to understand”

                  “philosophical grounding in Dialectical and Historical Materialism” also seems like it would be a fairly hard thing for the average person to understand

                  also, marx didn’t invent communism, so to say communism is contained within marxism is incorrect

                  the opening of the communist manifesto literally references the fact that european powers were already trying to “exorcise” the idea from the continent at the time

                  Yes, people generally don’t agree with the ideas posed by Nazism.

                  nazism proposed pre-natal scanning and graduate family planning stimulus? that’s news to me

                  • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                    3 months ago

                    if you’re referring to everything then that would include stuff like das kapital which i don’t think you can reasonably refer to as “easy to understand”

                    “philosophical grounding in Dialectical and Historical Materialism” also seems like it would be a fairly hard thing for the average person to understand

                    also, marx didn’t invent communism, so to say communism is contained within marxism is incorrect

                    the opening of the communist manifesto literally references the fact that european powers were already trying to “exorcise” the idea from the continent at the time

                    All of these are fairly straightforward and easy to understand, it just takes a while to get into the nitty gritty. Marx did not invent Communism, but Communism is core to Marxism.

                    nazism proposed pre-natal scanning and graduate family planning stimulus? that’s news to me

                    Ah, “the trains ran on time.” We both know that’s not Nazism.