Most children are successfully socialized into the culture they’re raised in. I think the usual though process is “I was hit by adults when I was a child” -> “I hit children now that I’m an adult” rather than rebellion.
“Hitting children for any reason is wrong” is an idea that only recently developed in Western culture. It isn’t universal in space or in time and without it, children still generally didn’t grow up to distrust authority or hate injustice.
(Consider a similar phenomenon in the Soviet Army: the tradition of senior conscripts abusing junior conscripts. All those senior conscripts were recently junior conscripts themselves and yet the tradition continues.)
That’s a very black-and-white way of looking at it. As children grow older, so too do their elders. Eventually the power balance (so to speak) shifts, and both the child and the elder learn who can hit harder.
Locking up parents you don’t like in a nursing home is also a recent, Western development. Generally grown children don’t seek revenge against their parents even in societies where physical violence against children is common. On the contrary, these societies usually have strong norms requiring the respect of elders.
(It’s ironic that by historical standards, Western parents treat their children exceptionally well but Western children treat their parents exceptionally poorly.)
Who said anything about a nursing home? I thought we were talking about throwing punches? Cause as I said, as each party ages, they both learn who hits harder.
Any old person that acts like they can’t catch hands, is literally asking for some to be thrown.
If you’re 20yo still taking abuse from someone three times your age, you’re not fighting hard enough for your own rights.
I hope to any and every god that may exist, that kid gets close enough to Erdogan one day, to return the favor tenfold.
I don’t know of any society where physical violence against one’s elderly parents is ever considered acceptable. A young adult is stronger than his elderly parents, but that young adult is universally forbidden to physically harm them, and this taboo is very rarely violated. (Edrogan isn’t the boy’s parent but he’s even higher up in the “respected elder” hierarchy.)
It’s pretty regular thing to beat your father if he abused you before. (Usually happens when the child is around 16). Then the child is kicked out of home. Many such stories here in Lithuania.
Social standards are not the benign excuse you think they are. If someone ever hits you, you hit back. If that’s how they think you learn, then make them learn that getting hithurts, and show them why they shouldn’t be hitting.
Letting someone hit you just cause “it’s normal” is called Stockholm Syndrome, and is objectively worse than being the one that’s doing the hurting, because it teaches other people that hurting others is okay.
If you saw an adult, hitting and dragging away a child who’s fighting back with all their might at a grocery store, there’s 2 things that could be happening. A.) just a parent “disciplining” their kid, or B.) a literal kidnapping is taking place.
In your (clearly more informed) mind, it would always be scenario A, and you wouldn’t even think twice about the possibility of scenario B, “because that’s the social norm,” according to you.
I’ll say it one more time: IF YOU THROW HANDS, EXPECT TO CATCH HANDS, NO MATTER YOUR AGE, GENDER, OR FUCK ALL.
It seems like you’re talking about what you think ought to happen rather than what actually happens. I’m not saying that social standards are correct in a moral sense but rather that they do objectively exist and control most people’s behavior. Maybe the world in which people usually did fight back would be a better world than ours, but it isn’t our world.
As for your specific question about the screaming child: the chance that it’s scenario A is nearly 100%. Public kidnappings like that do happen but they’re very rare. (I think that in practice, people would ignore a woman doing it but sometimes intervene against a man doing it.)
The only thing my ultra-conservative father and grandfather managed to do to me was to never ever let them anywhere near their grandchildren.
I also might’ve let my father know how it feels to get thrown through a bookshelf by someone a lot stronger when I got old enough to do so. Suddenly he was a lot less enthusiastic about physical violence. I wonder why. He still managed to fuck up my spine for life when he did the same to me - when I was 12. Took me 6 years and a lot of physio but he’ll never hurt anyone else ever again.
I would say that physical abuse like that is not comparable to a slap. Much fewer people, even in a conservative culture, would approve of disciplining a child that way. Majority would approve of a slap.
Besides, just because you turned out different doesn’t mean that majority will, too. I’ve been belted my entire childhood, but I personally wouldn’t do it. Doesn’t mean it’s become uncommon in general. Usually, people take after their parents.
Sure, but that’s not at all what we are discussing here. We are discussing the perception and overall approval of corporal punishment in conservative cultures.
And while methods that can actually inflict permanent damage to children would be perceived negatively even in conservative cultures, slaps would be approved by most.
I think some of the downvotes might be from people that want it to not be true. I would also like beaten kids to rebel and break the cycle. That doesn’t necessarily mean people don’t understand your point. Some of them have a different experience (they did rebel), some of them agree with you but want the reality to be different and a downvote is a way to express that, and some of them have motivations I can’t even imagine, I guess :)
That’s not how it works. If the society tells him that he wrong and rightfully punished, kid will likely just accept that reality.
Edit: what the? Why am I downvoted? I suppose you guys haven’t lived in middle-eastern countries.
Or, hear me out, he grows up resentful of all who lord their undeserved power over him, like billions of other children already do?
Most children are successfully socialized into the culture they’re raised in. I think the usual though process is “I was hit by adults when I was a child” -> “I hit children now that I’m an adult” rather than rebellion.
“Hitting children for any reason is wrong” is an idea that only recently developed in Western culture. It isn’t universal in space or in time and without it, children still generally didn’t grow up to distrust authority or hate injustice.
(Consider a similar phenomenon in the Soviet Army: the tradition of senior conscripts abusing junior conscripts. All those senior conscripts were recently junior conscripts themselves and yet the tradition continues.)
That’s a very black-and-white way of looking at it. As children grow older, so too do their elders. Eventually the power balance (so to speak) shifts, and both the child and the elder learn who can hit harder.
Locking up parents you don’t like in a nursing home is also a recent, Western development. Generally grown children don’t seek revenge against their parents even in societies where physical violence against children is common. On the contrary, these societies usually have strong norms requiring the respect of elders.
(It’s ironic that by historical standards, Western parents treat their children exceptionally well but Western children treat their parents exceptionally poorly.)
Who said anything about a nursing home? I thought we were talking about throwing punches? Cause as I said, as each party ages, they both learn who hits harder.
Any old person that acts like they can’t catch hands, is literally asking for some to be thrown.
If you’re 20yo still taking abuse from someone three times your age, you’re not fighting hard enough for your own rights.
I hope to any and every god that may exist, that kid gets close enough to Erdogan one day, to return the favor tenfold.
You do understand that physical power is not the only kind of power Erdogan has? The kid is very probably never going to get stronger than him.
I don’t know of any society where physical violence against one’s elderly parents is ever considered acceptable. A young adult is stronger than his elderly parents, but that young adult is universally forbidden to physically harm them, and this taboo is very rarely violated. (Edrogan isn’t the boy’s parent but he’s even higher up in the “respected elder” hierarchy.)
It’s pretty regular thing to beat your father if he abused you before. (Usually happens when the child is around 16). Then the child is kicked out of home. Many such stories here in Lithuania.
How does the legal system respond?
Social standards are not the benign excuse you think they are. If someone ever hits you, you hit back. If that’s how they think you learn, then make them learn that getting hit hurts, and show them why they shouldn’t be hitting.
Letting someone hit you just cause “it’s normal” is called Stockholm Syndrome, and is objectively worse than being the one that’s doing the hurting, because it teaches other people that hurting others is okay.
If you saw an adult, hitting and dragging away a child who’s fighting back with all their might at a grocery store, there’s 2 things that could be happening. A.) just a parent “disciplining” their kid, or B.) a literal kidnapping is taking place.
In your (clearly more informed) mind, it would always be scenario A, and you wouldn’t even think twice about the possibility of scenario B, “because that’s the social norm,” according to you.
I’ll say it one more time: IF YOU THROW HANDS, EXPECT TO CATCH HANDS, NO MATTER YOUR AGE, GENDER, OR FUCK ALL.
It seems like you’re talking about what you think ought to happen rather than what actually happens. I’m not saying that social standards are correct in a moral sense but rather that they do objectively exist and control most people’s behavior. Maybe the world in which people usually did fight back would be a better world than ours, but it isn’t our world.
As for your specific question about the screaming child: the chance that it’s scenario A is nearly 100%. Public kidnappings like that do happen but they’re very rare. (I think that in practice, people would ignore a woman doing it but sometimes intervene against a man doing it.)
The only thing my ultra-conservative father and grandfather managed to do to me was to never ever let them anywhere near their grandchildren.
I also might’ve let my father know how it feels to get thrown through a bookshelf by someone a lot stronger when I got old enough to do so. Suddenly he was a lot less enthusiastic about physical violence. I wonder why. He still managed to fuck up my spine for life when he did the same to me - when I was 12. Took me 6 years and a lot of physio but he’ll never hurt anyone else ever again.
I would say that physical abuse like that is not comparable to a slap. Much fewer people, even in a conservative culture, would approve of disciplining a child that way. Majority would approve of a slap.
Besides, just because you turned out different doesn’t mean that majority will, too. I’ve been belted my entire childhood, but I personally wouldn’t do it. Doesn’t mean it’s become uncommon in general. Usually, people take after their parents.
Slaps are what my mother gave me. My father wouldn’t bother with something like simple slaps.
There’s never any reason to hurt your own children. Not one. Parents are supposed to protect their children.
Sure, but that’s not at all what we are discussing here. We are discussing the perception and overall approval of corporal punishment in conservative cultures.
And while methods that can actually inflict permanent damage to children would be perceived negatively even in conservative cultures, slaps would be approved by most.
I think some of the downvotes might be from people that want it to not be true. I would also like beaten kids to rebel and break the cycle. That doesn’t necessarily mean people don’t understand your point. Some of them have a different experience (they did rebel), some of them agree with you but want the reality to be different and a downvote is a way to express that, and some of them have motivations I can’t even imagine, I guess :)
Downvoting problems away. The Lemmy equivalent of “1 like = 1 prayer”