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Cake day: June 30th, 2023

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  • It’s not though is it? “From the river to the sea” is referring to a Palestinian territory spanning from the Mediterranean to the Jordan. It’s referring to establishing a state over that area the exact same way Jews use it. The question meta weighed up was not “what are state actors doing”. Because if they had done so and had decided the saying was explicitly support for Hamas then they would have banned it, because Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation according to the US.

    Instead they explain they just because an individual says it, then the reader cannot infer the support of a state level group like Hamas. Nor is the saying in itself an encouragement to hurt Jewish people.

    But this also means of a Jewish individual says it then the reader cannot infer support of the action of a state level group like the Israeli government. Nor can it be taken in itself to be an explicit encouragement to violence against Palestinians.

    Cake and eat it etc.

    (Also, since it came up, over 70% of Jews in Israel were born in Israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis. I assume you’re not the kind of person to say “but where are you really from?”)


  • Meta have decided that an individual saying “from the river to the sea” neither implies support for a state actor (Hamas in this case) nor does it constitute hate speech in itself (the call for a Palestinian state to cover the ground currently mostly occupied by Israel is apparently not a call to violence against Israel or the Jews living there)

    None of this has anything to do with the dynamics of the current conflict, meta do not mention it. Incitement to hatred or violence occurs between individuals. And meta have determined that a Palestinian (or anyone) saying that phrase is not expressing hatred for Jews nor inciting violence by implying that Israel should be removed.

    So if they are being consistent with that logic then a Jew saying the same thing “does not imply support for the Israeli state or its actions”, in the same way that a Palestinian saying it does not imply Hamas support.

    Similarly, if a Palestinian saying it is not attempting incitement to violence (Hamas’ actions notwithstanding), then a Jew saying it is not attempting incitement to violence (the actions of the Israeli state notwithstanding)

    For the record I would regard the phrase said by either side as hate speech / incitement and I think meta’s ruling is silly.









  • The “implied perverse thrill” seems a bit of projection on your part

    You can read the critical reception of the film yourself here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saw_(film)#Critical_response

    A sample of adjectives: “nasty”, “nihilistic”, “mean”, “insinuatingly creepy”, “derivative”, “loathsome”, and, yes, “perverse”

    “visually appealing/stimulating images that have no context and at best provide a simulacrum of interest in the object or activity”

    what a silly self serving definition. “porn” has a particular meaning which you can look up in the OED, Cambridge, Websters etc. Definition 3 is how it was used - with negtive connotation - for “torture porn” and (the example in MW) “the pornography of violence”.

    The extension of that to mudane everyday things (food, cars, guitars) and especially when the material shared typically falls well short of “sensational” is just a lazy habit that reddit picked up (and other online spaces too) that I, and clearly others in this thread, think Lemmy wouldbe better without. etto…