A controversial rule restricting speech about Israel was dropped after artists abandoned festival lineups in Germany’s techno mecca.

  • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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    9 months ago

    Even if you believe Israel to be completely justified in everything they do, there should never be a blanket ban on criticizing the methods of a country at war.

    • MrCookieRespect@reddthat.com
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      9 months ago

      The ban wasn’t on criticism it was on their blunt antisemitism and terrorism support. There has been lost of criticism in Germany about Israels methods.

      • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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        9 months ago

        Sure, it was, at least according to the article. Emphasis mine:

        which explicitly forbids any speech that “questions Israel’s right to exist” or criticizes the country’s occupation of Palestinian land.

        • muelltonne@feddit.de
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          9 months ago

          And that is why Vice is a trash publication. Here is the correct text:

          „Alle potenziellen Zuwendungsempfängerinnen und –empfänger bekennen sich damit zu einer vielfältigen Gesellschaft und gegen jede Form von Antisemitismus gemäß der Antisemitismus-Definition der International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) und ihrer Erweiterung durch die Bundesregierung. Sie verpflichten sich dazu, alles Notwendige zu veranlassen, um sicherzustellen, dass die gewährten Fördergelder keinen Vereinigungen zugutekommen, die als terroristisch und/oder extremistisch eingestuft werden.“ “All potential grant recipients are thus committed to a diverse society and against all forms of antisemitism in accordance with the definition of antisemitism of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) and its extension by the German government. They undertake to take all necessary steps to ensure that the funding granted does not benefit associations that are classified as terrorist and/or extremist.”

          https://www.tagesspiegel.de/kultur/chialo-erlass-gegen-antisemitismus-berlins-kultureinrichtungen-bekommen-neue-forderrichtlinien-11006422.html

          And what is in the IHRA-definition?

          “Anti-Semitism is a certain perception of Jews that can be expressed as hatred towards Jews. Anti-Semitism is directed in word or deed against Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property as well as against Jewish community institutions or religious institutions. In addition, the state of Israel, which is understood as a Jewish collective, can also be the target of such attacks.”

          https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/aussenpolitik/kultur-und-gesellschaft/-/216610

          There’s nothing in there about “criticising the countries occupation of Palestinian lands”. You just can’t fucking mask your antisemitism by raging against Israel.

          • rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            Wanting foreign invaders out of the land they stole almost a century ago is not antisemetic.

                • roastedDeflator@kbin.socialOP
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                  9 months ago

                  According to zionists and their allies, only.

                  Take a look at what Jewish Voice for Peace have to say:

                  Our Approach to Zionism

                  Jewish Voice for Peace is guided by a vision of justice, equality and freedom for all people. We unequivocally oppose Zionism because it is counter to those ideals.
                  (…)
                  Palestinian dispossession and occupation are by design. Zionism has meant profound trauma for generations, systematically separating Palestinians from their homes, land, and each other. Zionism, in practice, has resulted in massacres of Palestinian people, ancient villages and olive groves destroyed, families who live just a mile away from each other separated by checkpoints and walls, and children holding onto the keys of the homes from which their grandparents were forcibly exiled.
                  (…)

            • MrCookieRespect@reddthat.com
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              9 months ago

              It is, its idiotic and they stole the land as well.

              This is the same argument Russia has for Ukraine btw.

              • tryptaminev 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇪🇺@feddit.de
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                9 months ago

                No they didn’t. Even the christian crusaders, who where happy to commit pogroms against jews in Europe as a sort of “motivational entertainment” had to note the peaceful coexistence of jews, christians and muslims under islamic rule.

                The Palestinians of today are the descendants of the biblical abrahamic tribes. White european, often secular, jews, who now control Israel are killing the people whose lineage is closer to David and Abraham, than theirs could ever be.

                • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                  9 months ago

                  The main reason the jews under the Ottoman empire started the Yishuv and congregated in Palestine hoping to get their own country was that they were seriously discriminated against under islamic rule. They had to pay more taxes, were restricted in what clothing they could wear, were not allowed to build or maintain houses of worship, ride horses, carry weapons, … and were generally valued as less than muslims wrt legal rulings. This wasn’t enforced everywhere throughout the entire history of the empire, but I don’t think anyone would be happy in that situation.

                  Currently, less than half the Israelis are descendent from ‘white European’ immigrants

                  • tryptaminev 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇪🇺@feddit.de
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                    9 months ago

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

                    Historian Martin Gilbert writes that it was in the 19th century that the position of Jews worsened in Muslim countries.[38] According to Mark Cohen in The Oxford Handbook of Jewish Studies, most scholars conclude that Arab anti-Semitism in the modern world arose in the nineteenth century, against the backdrop of conflicting Jewish and Arab nationalism, and was imported into the Arab world primarily by nationalistically minded Christian Arabs (and only subsequently was it “Islamized”)

                    1865, when the equality of all subjects of the Ottoman Empire was proclaimed, Ahmed Cevdet Pasha, a high-ranking official observed, “whereas in former times, in the Ottoman State, the communities were ranked, with the Muslims first, then the Greeks, then the Armenians, then the Jews, now all of them were put on the same level. Some Greeks objected to this, saying: ‘The government has put us together with the Jews. We were content with the supremacy of Islam.’”

                    That seems to me, as a result of the general nationalism that emerged and specifically the long lasting antisemitic tradition of the Christians to take influence with the decline of the Ottoman empire.

                    Meanwhile there are extensive links between zionism and anti-semitism, where secular zionists often worked together with anti-semitists to push for the zionist project as a mean to remove jews from western countries.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_antisemitism

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                9 months ago

                It is, its idiotic and they stole the land as well.

                I know you and your ilk don’t care about that, but no they didn’t. The Palestinians of today are the same Palestinians of 2000 years ago. Palestine wasn’t only Jews.

                • MrCookieRespect@reddthat.com
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                  9 months ago

                  And yet they killed all the jews and whats before that? Our history is a little longer than 2000 years… About 12000 years to be specific. (if we take the first city as the start of human civilization)

                  Also Judaism is a lot older than Islam, wich is even younger than Christianity, wich itself is based on Judaism.

                  • sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz
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                    9 months ago

                    You realize both the Palestinian and Jewish people are descendants from the people that lived on the land back then, right? We literally have evidence of that.

                    Like, just because your RELIGION is Islam or Christianity, that doesn’t mean you can’t be GENETICALLY Jewish. In fact there’s this whole thing WITHIN Judaism regarding ethnic Jews vs non-ethnic Jews…

                    You seem to be arguing about the Jews rights as a race, but conflating it to religion. Because if it was about “race”, then Palestinians are entitled to the same land as Israel claims.

                • MrCookieRespect@reddthat.com
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                  9 months ago

                  And yet they killed all the jews and whats before that? Our history is a little longer than 2000 years… About 12000 years to be specific. (if we take the first city as the start of human civilization)

                  Also Judaism is a lot older than Islam, wich is even younger than Christianity, wich itself is based on Judaism.

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                    9 months ago

                    And yet they killed all the jews and whats before that?

                    No they… didn’t? I’m not even sure what you’re talking about. Zionists tend to refer to some nonexistent Arab genocide of all inhabitants of Palestine so they can conveniently claim that the people currently living there “stole” it; is that what you mean?