While Education and Organizing is building the parts for a new engine the rest of the year.
Reminder that someone online arguing that you shouldn’t vote for Biden because of whatever pet grievance is either a Russian agent or an idiot playing into their hands
If people think an “evangelical” is going to handle the conflict in Gaza on the side of the Palestinians better than Joe Brandon they are sorely mistaken and/or misguided. 45 wanted a straight up Muslim ban ffs.
Yeah, I’d rather deal with someone who enables Israel’s bad behavior instead of someone who not only cheers it on but offers to help make it worse. There’s at least a snowball’s chance of convincing the enabler to stop enabling.
Evangelicals want this conflict, because in order for Jesus to come back and rapture them, the mosque on the Temple Mount must be destroyed so the temple can be rebuilt, which is step one of their prophecy. That’s the real reason they pretend to care about the Jews.
They truly believe this is their end times, and worse, a few years ago their perfect red cow they’ve been waiting for these thousands of years was certified; if that cow dies before they get the chance to sacrifice it to rebuild their temple, they may have to wait another thousand years.
It’s a death cult and they’ll kill us all.
And how quick all these Hamas and Houthi cheerleaders forgot Ukraine too. A country that would not exist anymore if Trump had won 2020.
“Forgot”?
No, they think Ukraine is a fake Nazi state run by a Jewish drug addict puppeted by the globalhomo Western imperialists.
In other words, insanity.
And soon those farms are going to be powered by ChatGPT. When you hear that Russian line it’s going to have ten replies all agreeing and giving supporting arguments.
I wonder if we’ll be able to spot hallucinations in such a simple task.
bots congratulating each other on right thoughts.
Reminder that not everyone who disagrees with your guilt tripping self righteous nonsense is a Russian bot. Some of us actually use critical thinking and can see a pattern that must be broken.
I’ve been called a Trumper/Russian bot/Chinese bot since 2016 (on Reddit, same username) because I’m critical of ALL politicians. I got banned from /r/politics for listing reasons why Hillary would lose and what she needed to change in order to beat Trump. Welp…
Did you think people in the Hilary campaign would be trawling through r/politics, looking for your comment and changing their platform to what you wanted?
Or were you just encouraging voters not to participate in the election?
Correct The Record, David Brock…
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-clinton-digital-trolling-20160506-snap-htmlstory.html
look, I can understand the argument that you must vote for the most effective way to contain an evil. It’s a good solid argument.
However it starts taking damage almost immediately when:
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The plan to fight the evil is using the most disliked president in recent history to win a popularity contest.
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They pre-emptively destroy any and all opportunities to find a better candidate to win the popularity contest against the evil.
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They refuse to debate anybody just like the evil they want to defeat. Making it impossible to verify they’re the one for the job.
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They forcibly re-schedule the primary schedule to delay any signs that this plan might be a terrible idea.
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Their age is seriously in question, their mental acuity is in question, and they also decide to dodge being in a completely unscripted environment for two hours while standing.
Certainly with all this you can at least understand why someone would rather vote third party, because this Biden option is not making me feel any safer.
At what point can we stop pointing the finger at the voters and start pointing at the guy they’re “supposed to vote for”? Is there a point we can ever point that finger at Biden? Or is it like Trump,where we need to vote for him “even if he were to shoot someone in the street”?
It works better when you have an idea of what the President actually does and what direct action would mean.
Almost everything we would want to do is at the local or regional level. Want higher density housing? Your mayor and city council control that with no say from the President. Better public transportation? Same, though the President can try convincing Congress to pass grant funding for it. More and better bike lanes? Same thing. Get rid of anti-homeless architecture? All city level stuff.
School lunch programs? State government can stop it if the wrong people are there. Expand Medicare? Same. Better rail networks? Same. Ban gay conversion therapy? All state government.
Foreign policy is the one thing where the President does have a lot of control. That’s actually the exception. I like Biden’s approach on Ukraine–getting most of Europe to go along with sanctions at all, especially after Trump destroyed our soft diplomatic power, was amazing. His approach on the Gaza conflict is far less amazing, to put it mildly. Other than foreign policy, the position is mostly advocacy and horse trading around funding priorities with Congress. Soft power for the most part.
A bad President, especially combined with a bad Congress, sure as hell can stop the local agenda items, though. Pull the grants for cities to implement public transit. Pull Medicare expansion entirely. Don’t provide school lunch program funding at all. Put judges in power who rule arbitrarily in favor of conservatives with no care for precedent.
What voting for Biden is for is to make sure the federal government doesn’t overrule things built locally and regionally. That’s it. The rest needs direct action on the part of all of us at different levels of government.
A bad President, especially combined with a bad Congress, sure as hell can stop the local agenda items, though. Pull the grants for cities to implement public transit. Pull Medicare expansion entirely. Don’t provide school lunch program funding at all. Put judges in power who rule arbitrarily in favor of conservatives with no care for precedent.
What voting for Biden is for is to make sure the federal government doesn’t overrule things built locally and regionally. That’s it. The rest needs direct action on the part of all of us at different levels of government.
finally somebody gets it dude hoo lee I feel like I’ve been wearing the nightmare vision goggles and taking the crazy pills or something
Is there a point we can ever point that finger at Biden?
Point fingers all you want as long as you vote to keep the rapist, insurrectionist, self-admitted wannabe dictator out of power.
Yeah Biden is only the first one so 1-3 = 2 so he’s good candidate
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Yeah? Like our devotion to repeatedly voting in neolibs like Carter, Clinton, Obama, and Biden has had nothing to do with tilting the political spectrum to the far right?
I’ll probably pull the lever for Biden, but I don’t blame anyone who doesn’t. Based on the results of recent decades of leftists holding their noses to vote for the neolib, even if Biden wins something much worse than Trump will arrive just in time for the 2028 cycle.
What if I think people should still vote but they should be ready to be unhappy with the outcome either way and that it won’t actually provide meaningful change?
I will be very different levels of unhappy with a too moderate democrat than a wannabe dictator.
So long as we have “too moderate democrats”, the wannabe dictators are gonna look great for actually believing in something. Fuck Biden for appeasing and therefore empowering the right, shifting goalposts back decades- I hope he suffers excruiating back pain today and forever if not ruinous guilt. He makes the democrats look SO bad. Especially on a international scale.
Is abortion being nationally illegal “meaningful change”? Explain how that’s not meaningful for us stupid people.
Under Biden it is still illegal put someone better in
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Meaningful positive change. Our government is great at fucking shit up.
Ah i see, so positive change is worth pushing for, but avoiding calamity isn’t and you through throw away your vote instead. Insightful political philosophy.
Did you miss the part where I said people should still vote? They should just drastically lower their expectations.
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I literally said this:
What if I think people should still vote but they should be ready to be unhappy with the outcome either way and that it won’t actually provide meaningful change?
[patriotic music swells]
Then I’d understand and mourn your cynicism, but not think of you as a bad citizen.
Damn. I don’t particularly like being a citizen of anywhere, let alone a good one.
Citizenship is responsibility - participation in the civic life of a polity. That’s what being a citizen, and not simply a subject, means - to have the right to a share in the direction of the polity. Like it or not, if you’re active in exercising your influence to affect politics instead of abrogating that power to the elite, you’re a good citizen of wherever you live.
There, there. It’ll be alright…
Okay but what if I only vote as a joke?
In that case, you can be a bad citizen.
Good. I don’t want people thinking I approve of nation-states or anything like that.
You don’t have to if you live in a state that will vote overwhelmingly democrat. Maryland, California, New York, Massachusetts, Hawaii, and DC Biden won by over 20% margin I have wiggle room to vote 3rd party.
How many other people are thinking that same thing?
There is NO wiggle room this election. Not even in blue af California.
Save your principles for the local elections if you want future elections.
Haha every election is THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION EVER NO WIGGLE ROOM.
This election is equally important, or equally unimportant as any other election.
Bruh. Before 2022 I had bodily autonomy and Trans people could receive their medications with a semblance of reliability. Immigrants weren’t being bussed around the country against their will.
We have gone way more right, way faster, than I think anyone could have foreseen.
Bruh. Before 2022 I had bodily autonomy
If you’re referring to the lack of roe v wade, that was the supreme court, not the president, and I’m not aware of any current justices planning to retiring in the next four years. It’s now a states rights issue. Support the state level candidate who is inline with your views.
Trans people could receive their medications with a semblance of reliability.
With few exceptions, “trans” adults can do whatever they want. Assuming they’re an American citizen, they have the exact same rights as you and I.
Immigrants weren’t being bussed around the country against their will.
You’re right. They were piling up in border states and no one gave a shit until they started getting bussed around.
We have gone way more right, way faster, than I think anyone could have foreseen.
These issues are far more complicated than you would pretend.
Who do you think stacked the Courts in the favor of Republicans? And if you think Trump won’t press it further by expanding the Courts and putting more Conservatives in, you’re high. Additionally, if you don’t think a Republican will push for a nationwide abortion ban, you’re even more high.
Well, you’re worse than high. You’re likely a Russian troll.
Yep, I’m high, and a Russian troll. Ya got me :/
Fucking online fear mongering. Honestly, I wouldn’t have it any other way. Feels like home.
In Maryland there is like 33% wiggle room I am ok. If I was in Pennsylvania it would be a different story.
Hillary and Biden both beat Trump by huge numbers in Maryland I can vote for 3rd party no issues. People are just scared that people from Pennsylvania have the same idea which it would actually cause harm.
Maryland:
Hillary beat Trump 60 - 33%
Biden beat Trump 65 - 33%
I would argue that the folks who voted 3rd party in 2016 decided we needed to do more than just not vote for Trump in 2020. The folks who voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 are gonna vote for him again in 2024.
I’d say equally this year it is worthwhile to do more than just “not vote for Trump” but vote for Biden (especially if you intended to vote 3rd party … but by all means vote your conscience first!) to further cement the statement that we did not choose Trump.
The stats show he lost no ground, the issue will be how much ground Biden has lost because of the attacks about their age and pushing folks to vote 3rd party or whatever as an act of protest.
Vote your conscience first, but don’t protest by a third party vote. If you have no good option CHOOSE HARM REDUCTION ALWAYS
I say this as a Bernie 2016 / 2020 voter. It still hurts. I’m choosing to reduce the harm regardless.
Hillary and Biden both beat Trump by huge numbers in Maryland I can vote for 3rd party no issues. People are just scared that people from Pennsylvania have the same idea which it would actually cause harm.
You can vote for whoever you please and should.
Vote your conscience every time.
I’m simply arguing that it is a good idea to not rest on your laurels and when we are faced with what feels like a crazy threat to democracy maybe then its especially good to vote in your best interests instead.
Only you can choose what your best interests are, but anyone who argues that you SHOULD protest vote probably has an agenda which is likely to get you to not vote for Biden or Trump.
voting is not harm reduction.
I’d love for you to tell me how it isn’t.
harm reduction is when you know a bad thing is going to happen, and you give the people it’s happening to resources to mitigate the harm from it. needle exchanges are the best example: people are going to use drugs. that’s bad enough with the stigma and risks of impurities etc. giving them clean needles eliminates one of the dangers, though.
voting doesn’t give the effected people any resources to deal with the problems created by our government.
edit:
harm reduction would be sending medical supplies to gaza. setting up abortion care resources in the states. distributing HRT resources. voting is just that: voting.
Harm reduction, or harm minimization, refers to a range of intentional practices and public health policies designed to lessen the negative social and/or physical consequences associated with various human behaviors, both legal and illegal.
It is harm reduction.
no, it’s not. harm reduction is the things you do regardless of whether democrats or republicans win.
“Pet grievance” is one of my new favorite euphemisms for genocide.
Voting does nothing other than reform the capitalist regime. It doesn’t matter whether this cycle’s presidential figurehead is blue or red. Give it a few decades and you’ll see how the US will still be sowing death and destruction across the world, as it always has. The presidential race that liberals get so rabid about is nothing more than kabuki theater.
Ah yes, the bearer of truth right here, fellas. So your plan is do nothing, but bitch about everything. Gotcha.
Read some Marx and you’ll understand that political action doesn’t start, and end, at the ballot box.
Marx? The guy that advocates for waiting until society collapses and then waiting for a better society to be built from its ashes?
Literally not what he says, though.
Yes Marx, the guy who made a system of government that totally works guys, it just hasn’t been really truly tried yet ok
I already have toilet paper. Thanks though.
“progressive”
“thinks you should wipe your ass with the entire works of Karl Marx”
Pick a lane buddy
Lol way to show you know nothing about your own ideology, buddy.
Progressivism: Progressive liberalism is a response to marxism, (radical) socialism, and communism. It was a recognition that the problems marxists, (radical) socialists, and communists were bringing to the forefront were proper problems, but it contests that marxists, socialists, and communists have the correct solutions. For that matter, progressive liberalism is anti-marxist, anti-socialist, and anti-communist.
Progressive liberals hope to “save capitalism from itself” not abolish it unlike genuine marxists, socialists, and communists wish to do.
Sorry, what is my ideology?
Didn’t she win the popular vote?
This is just shit libs blaming the left instead of taking responsibility for running a shit candidate with so much baggage that she lost while “winning”
If you want to be mad at anyone, blame the dnc.
Bernie would have whooped trump in 2016. Shame the dnc decided to change the rules the day of to avoid a split ticket or God forbid, supporting the actually viable candidate.
Bernie would have whooped trump in 2016. Shame the dnc decided to change the rules the day of to avoid a split ticket or God forbid, supporting the actually viable candidate.
DNC/DCCC isn’t exactly in the business of winning elections. If it comes between winning an election and BAU (they’d rather have a republican they can ‘work’ with), they pick BAU. They’ll happily (and have) fund Republicans over Progressives.
Sanders, God love him, was not going to be electable. Had they run him, Trump would have picked up the whole of the big fat moderate lump in the middle of the bell curve.
Exactly like Boris Johnson did when he ran against Jeremy Corbyn. The capitalists simply won’t allow socialists to win in this environment.
Sanders, God love him, was not going to be electable. Had they run him, Trump would have picked up the whole of the big fat moderate lump in the middle of the bell curve.
This is simply false, and the same consistent misunderstanding of real politic that keeps the DNC on the struggle bus.
By the same logic Trump would not have been considered viable. See how that played out.
Sanders, God love him, was not going to be electable.
Literally every single poll says otherwise. We’ll never know for certain, but there’s much more evidence to support a Sanders victory than a Sanders loss, and claiming that Trump would have picked up enough moderates to win is baseless speculation.
Lol, no.
Bernie is the Ron Paul of the left; he has a small group of very loud supporters online who by constantly shouting at each other on the internet have convinced themselves that he’s actually some sort of populist god. I mean seriously, he couldn’t even win the popular vote in the Democratic Primary in 2016, losing to Hillery by over three million votes, where were all the extra voters to “whoop” Trump supposed to come from?
“Pro-Trump Russian asset Wikileaks reveals that DNC said mean things about our Lord and Savior Bernie Sanders”
Seriously, have you actually looked at the Wikileak emails rather than the hype? It’s the weakest shit imaginable.
You sound like someone who thinks Russiagate and rachel maddow were legit. WikiLeaks used to be trumpeted by liberals as a bastion of truth untill Assange came out with the corrupt dnc stuff. Which you can still all read, yes they conspired with Hillary. MSNBC and CNN gave her easy questions while grilling Bernie. “Weakest shit indeed”.
If the establishment doesn’t like the candidate they won’t get airtime. Same shit with Dean Philips and Marianne Williamson. The Biden team places some phone calls and bam your campaign is dead and no airtime/coverage. Are they viable candidates, who knows?
Should they at least get airtime and be heard in a democratic process?? Yes…
Yeah, you might want to scroll down to “Secret correspondence between WikiLeaks and Donald Trump Jr.” on the Wikipedia article.
I swear to God if any fucking idiot is here to relitigate the 2016 election they can suck a fucking egg. It was toxic then and it is toxic now. Please do us all a favor and go the way of the_donald and drop off the face of the earth.
wikileaks is not pro trump. wikileaks is not a russian asset
The emails were never even denied, and they are damning as hell. That is precisely why the entire response, to this day, has been to ignore what was revealed and go after the people who revealed it. Yes, it was shit people revealing shit about other shit people.
dont underestimate how much people hate women
I mean, I will always be mad at the DNC for not running Sanders.
Doesn’t mean I’m not gonna vote Biden in Nov 2024 though.
Then you aren’t mad at the DNC you support their decision to keep the status quo in check
Bruh I participated in the 2020 Nevada caucuses when I lived there, and I stood for Bernie (which he won btw, Biden took second). Idk what else you want me to do when he didn’t make the final cut.
I will always vote for the Dem in the General, and do my best to make changes in the primary/local elections where I vote Progressive.
Otherwise, you risk a Republican winning the General, and that will mean FURTHER devastation for American society at a quicker pace.
Otherwise, you risk a Republican winning the General, and that will mean FURTHER devastation for American society at a quicker pace.
Make no mistake - that’s what these people want.
Bernie himself is stanning for the Democrats after they screwed him over. He even still refuses to call the genocide in Gaza a genocide. He didn’t even call for a ceasefire for a long time. Many Bernie staffers are very disappointed with him that’s a lot closer than you shaking his hand
Bernie is not the second coming of jesus. He bent the knee. Just passing motions like a human rights report is the most weak sauce left wing thing America has left.
So we’re gonna act like winning the popular vote and losing isn’t a problem in and of itself?
Of course it’s a problem. But people point to this and say “the system’s broken [of course it is], so why vote!” Which is what the most fascist, anti-freedom politicians want. Functionality, it’s the same as voting for the ‘R’ in every election.
Systems fucked, but I always vote. Getting blamed while supporting a candidate I despise certainly is icing on the shit cake
So we’re gonna act like winning the popular vote and losing isn’t a problem in and of itself?
Right?
Apoligists. Apologists all the way down.
Don’t you see the contradiction in “she won the popular vote” and “she was a shit candidate”?
It’s kinda like the contradiction that Bernie could win the general election, but 12% of his voters defecting to Trump wasn’t enough to make a difference.
Leftists are going to be shouting “the DNC is corrupt” on the gallows after Trump wins.
Don’t you see the contradiction in “she won the popular vote” and “she was a shit candidate”?
No, because the popular vote isn’t how US elections are won. She needed to appeal to the people in the 5 or so states that actually matter and failed to do so.
“Leftists are going to be shouting “the DNC is corrupt” on the gallows after Trump wins.”
This is the stupid shit is see all over lemmy that makes me so mad… Yes the DNC SUCKS but guess what? They’re the status quo right now, and the alternative is literally a fucking dictatorship that has vindictive actions as their highest priority.
There aren’t even dog whistles anymore, he’s using the word dictator… But yeah BomberBiden… Mr.Genocide… I get it… So that means let Trump win? Seriously?
Yeah, and I’ll still likely vote for Mr genocide all while being blamed for his loss. So why’s it matter?
Don’t you see the contradiction in “she won the popular vote” and “she was a shit candidate”?
Both of these things can be true. If “did not vote” had been a candidate in 2016, it would have won in a landslide. Just 8 states + DC had enough voters turn out such that any candidate won more votes than there were eligible voters that didn’t bother. As a percentage of eligible voters, Clinton received 28.43% of eligible voters, with Trump trailing at 27.2% of eligible voters. While Trump outperformed Romney (2012) by 2M votes, Clinton underperformed Obama in 2012.
As a percentage of the entire US population (including those too young or other ineligible to vote) Clinton got votes from 20.30% of the population and Trump got votes from 19.41% of people.
They both sucked so badly that just over a quarter of eligible voters/less than a fifth of everybody was all it took to elect Trump
No that just shows she was more popular out of the 2 shit choices
TF do you think our vote was? I can’t vote any harder or some shit.
The hilarious bit was all the shit libs backing comey during russiagate. It’s literally his fault she lost.
Yeah but in their eyes it couldn’t be anything wrong with her as it was her turn so couldn’t have been his handling of anything
If you want to be mad at anyone, blame the dnc.
1000x over this.
Neat. I’m over being chastised while voting for a piece of shit that was “the lesser evil”
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Or blame both.
There’s more than one way to solve most problems, and more than one cause as well. Would a stronger candidate have succeeded? Perhaps. But that was a solution for earlier in the process. A solution for late in the process was voters turning up.
We literally had that candidate and he got fucked over by super deligates or some nonsense.
I’m sick of being blamed when I voted for someone as vile as hrc. Dems lost the vote, not me.
Maybe if hrc actually showed up to purple states and appealed to actual voters it would have went differently.
I don’t want to be mad, I want to change things and improve people’s lives. So I vote for the lesser of 2 evils until we can abolish this “first past the post” nonsense.
This
But people did vote for Hillary, IIRC, she won the popular vote by like 3 million votes.
So it wasnt a lack of voting that gave trump the presidency and repealed abortion rights. It was the mecanisms and institutions that are part of your electoral process and that only seem to exist in order to dilute your democracy (e. voting districts, electoral college) that gave trump the win.
Perhaps people would be more willing to vote if their voices were actually heard.
NaPoVo InterCo FTW
Okay this one went over my head. What’s happening here?
Thanks lol
Kinda irrelevant but frustrating that someone down voted you for being genuinely curious about something that could have a huge impact on the future of our country -_-
Seems like Lemmy has a lot in common with Reddit
Hexagons are bestagons
Similarly, if the DNC hadn’t absolutely SCREWED my boy Bernie, we also wouldn’t be in this complete shit-hole.
A socialist will never be elected. When anyone gets close, the entire capitalist world immediately forget their differences and unite to make sure it doesn’t happen.
Happened to Sanders.
If you want read a more heinous example, it’s Jeremy Corbyn. A genuinely good man .
Demsocs (really, socdems) still believe in capitalism. They’re not quite Debs levels of socialist.
It’s probably more accurate to state that they believe capitalism and markets to be two separate things, for example a market economy where every business is a multi-stakeholder worker-consumer coop and workers and “consumers” alike can consent to what happens at work, would be at odds with private ownership given that everyone is an owner with decision making power (collective/socialized ownership). This is pretty much what Corbyn and the Labour party a few years back were aiming for - they were going to experiment with cooperatives by having the government encourage and fund them.
Yeah, the Richard wolf revolution. Would be nice.
Not yet
A socialist will never be elected.
Christ, they’ve been calling every democrat a socialist for 20 years now and it’s chased half of the democrats rightward so far that it’s a problem for a lot of democrats to keep voting for that
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Uhhhh no. He didn’t pull any votes because he wasn’t even on the ticket during the general election and he endorsed Hillary. Also, considering how unpopular Hillary was she should have picked Bernie as her VP. Picking anti union, milked toste Tim Kain was a joke.
What kind of pretzel knot do you have to tie your brain into to think that?
If Hilary hadn’t been a pile of shit doing private speaking engagements for billionaires that were so hush hush that they set up massive white noise generating speaker systems, people would have voted for her.
if Hilary had set a fucking foot in some of the states she lost, people would have voted for her.
if Hilary didnt make stupid fucking comments, people would have voted for her.
Maybe if you stopped blaming voters, and blamed the shitty fucking candidates, someone less awful would have run, and won.
You’ve got to at least try to appeal your base. And no, “vote for me or you’ll get the other guy” is not an inspiring rally cry. It didn’t work in 2016 and the fact that the message seems to be similar in 2024 has me really worried.
Well no. Hillary was a center-right candidate. If she wanted votes from progressives or left-wing voters, she knew exactly what to do. But she threw those votes away, relying on rhetoric like this post. We all saw it happening, and she did it anyway. What if she had pushed for universal health care, or unions, or campaign finance reform, or gun laws, or against wars? It would have been an exciting election.
I voted for the greater good in 2016 - in the Democratic primaries.
I voted for the lesser evil in the general election, then took a long hot shower.
Things would have certainly worked out better with a Hillary victory instead of the Trumpster fire we got.
This does not excuse the horseshit shenanigans that were going on within the DNC.
Our “lesser evil” option keeps moving further and further to the right each cycle.
Because America isnt voting for change. They’re just moving towards fascism, either slow or fast.
If you tell anyone to change course and vote third party they get really mad at you here on Lemmy.
Hence educating and organizing the other 364 days of the year.
I think a better strategy is to run for office rather than vote. Because voting doesn’t do much if the available candidates are turncoats or shills. It should be educate, organize, and run. Otherwise we get more Scinemas running for raising minimum wage and not at all voting for it when it counts most.
Ah a slogan. Truly helpful.
Slogans are helpful yes.
Thoughts and prayers to you then.
More of an action and policy removed
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I’d say the people who voted third party are the ones who fucked around in 2016, and ALL of us found out because of it.
Dictatorship it is then. 3rd parties don’t stand a snowballs chance in hell right now.
Canvassing and outreach happen first, then you can vote for that party. Right now you’re literally handing Republicans the win if you vote 3rd party this election.
3rd parties don’t stand a snowballs chance in hell right now.
Which is a problem that needs to be addressed.
This voting the lesser of two evils won’t stop the republicans from getting further to the right, and the democrats to do the same to try and capture more moderate right wing votes.
How many elections will be “don’t vote 3rd party vote us or else the other guys will win”? How many problems will be addressed that way? How bad are you going to let these systemic issues plague the US before realizing that “hey maybe this is damaging our democracy and leading down a path towards autocracy”?
Cause the main way for autocrats to rule is for people to stop engaging in politics as they don’t feel represented, and that’s something you’re seeing happening in the US due, also, to a lack of 3rd parties. This creates apathy which autocrats thrive on. And you’ll be whining about people not voting your lesser evil all the way to fascism because you were too shortsighted in winning X election to see the issue at large.
3rd parties don’t stand a snowballs chance in hell
Because of you and other useful idiots spreading RNC/DNC propaganda.
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Duverger’s law is RNC/DNC propaganda?
No. Duverger’s law describes the outcome of you accepting and spreading DNC/RNC propaganda
On today’s episode of “leftists are simultaneously both stupid babies who exist solely for us to mock AND single handedly responsible for every Republican win.”
If democrats ran Bernie who won the primary, instead of telling him to eat a dick then going to court to tell their voters to eat a dick - THEN all those things in op.
2016 we watched that, in 2024 we’re watching Biden sidestep congress to fund genocide. Democrats aren’t any less fascist, they just put a little rainbow pin on their cap and you call them the good guys.
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Dems deciding to fuck around and find out…
Yeah! Sending minorities to concentration camps will really show those Dems!
Punch up not down. Democrat leadership decides on policy, Democrat leadership decides on election strategy.
“I won’t vote for leader that heinous thing x” is a reasonable position to have. “I will vote for leader that doesn’t heinous thing y” is also a reasonable position to have.
The compromise isn’t to get people to vote for x, it’s for the leader to stop x. Particularly, if the opponent would do x but worse. That only shows, to the Democrat leader, y is a resonable cost for x.
Leftists did vote for Hillary in 2016.
What a bad take. If regular normie DEMOCRATS had voted for her, she’d have won. She failed on so many levels.
Edit: or if she hadn’t rigged the primary, we would have had Bernie, and abortion would also have been legal. Reforming the DNC is harm reduction.
Copying and pasting my own comment from another thread:
If you want leftists to vote for dems, despite dems pissing on leftists at every possible chance and yelling at leftists to fall in line, I’ll show you how.
-
Point out that voting will never, ever, ever move the democrat party to the left. You cannot vote the party harder to the left.
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Point out that Republicans are going to remain fascists.
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Point out that voting third party is a spoiler vote and will result in fascists winning.
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Point out that the actual way to move to the left is to unionize and organize at the grassroots level, to apply bottom-up pressure on the top.
The answer is not to pretend that Biden is anything other than a Neoliberal Capitalist. Leftists will correctly point out that Biden is still a lukewarm neoliberal maintaining the status quo, and feel further alienated by being told they should love him anyways. That just encourages voter apathy.
Additionally, this meme is wrong. Leftists voted, it was the centrists and moderates that didn’t. Hillary wasn’t appealing in any way, so only the people who really cared voted. Hillary still won the popular vote, she just lost the electoral college, and Trump succeeded in riling up the fascist base. Do not blame Leftists for not falling in line for an extremely unlikable candidate, they did regardless. Blame Hillary for doing jack-shit to energize the base.
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More like of rbg hadn’t been so stubborn and had actually stepped down when Obama was in office, we wouldn’t have a republican majority on the supreme Court.
Because neoliberalism and republicanism are both terrible, and because the DNC is crooked as fuck
Yeah, she totally should’ve stepped down so Obama could appoint… checks notes… Merrick Garland. Oh fuck, never mind I see her point
Did anyone ever pay attention to most of the people Obama appointed to his cabinet? They were like hand-picked by Wall Street lobbyists.
Yeah and Hillary would’ve been better? What about Amy Coney Barrett?
Obviously not. Wtf? You think someone who criticizes Obama for being a weak politician would support Clinton, a much tougher politician even more committed to neoliberalism? I see no reason to think she wouldn’t have wanted to appoint someone like Garland as well.
Well I mean that is literally the point of the meme we are all commenting under right now, so yes that is what I thought you were saying…
Didn’t the Republicans stonewall approving a supreme Court justice for 18 months so that their guy, Trump, could appoint one. Then when rgb died they just ignored everything they did and said because they were in charge.
Soon of a bitch, that could have kept is at a 5-4 conservative court.
You aint wrong
If Obama had fought for his seat, Roe would still be the law. Dems never ever fight. They cry about how they can’t do anything. Even when they have the house, senate, and white house, they couldn’t do anything. Watch the excuses that follow this comment.
Neither capitalist party will ever help because they’re both avowed capitalists.
Vote dem, move right slowly. Vote GOP move right fast AF, with added racism, hatred, and Christo-fascist oppression as well.
But ultimately, NO capitalist party will ever fix anything in this shit two party system. Both parties get all their campaign donations from the same billionaires., and companies.
Vote dem, move right slowly. Vote GOP move right fast AF, with added racism, hatred, and Christo-fascist oppression as well.
It comes down to that the DNC/ DCCC and their voters are fundamentally not aligned in terms of incentives and priorities, and most discussant in places like this simply do not appreciate that. Whereas, the GOP and their voter base,are at least aligned, on their priorities and at least dubiously on incentives. This is demonstrated by their ability to provide for their voters once in office. You can and should hate what the priorities of the GOP are, however, you shouldn’t deny that they deliver for their voters when it comes time to do so. They make their voters priorities a priority once elected, and work their asses off to get these shitty, inhumane policies into place.
The DNC/DCCC have historically treated their voters as an inconvenience, in a very technocratic, “we’re the experts, we know better” fashion. Its a kind of anti-populism that was best expressed in the Hillary campaign, but also in how Obama ran his administration. To the DNC/DCCC, their voters are an inconvenience at best. Frankly, they’d probably prefer having a rightwing base, because they would better align with their actual prioritize. The result is that when elected, DCCC candidates don’t work or fight for the things they campaigned on, because they truly don’t think those things are priorities. This trickles down into a lack of results to their base, causing them to struggle because they consistently fail to deliver for the people that vote for them.
Edit because I wanted to highlight some things…
Observe the difference:
Hillary on the trail, 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN6iwqthZrU
Hillary takes the position of “knowing better”, that the protesters need to basically sit down and shut up.
Bernie on the trail, 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjt56Tdhhqk
Bernie gives them the mic and the time to get their message across.
In my lifetime, a dem only ever once gave me something to vote FOR, and I actively campaigned for him-Obama. And the first thing he did was give up on universal care and then even on public option. But he’s making millions by leveraging his presidency, so he’s a good little capitalist.
And the banks still appreciate him vailing them out while ficking us all and all our municipalities, etc.
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Yeah, the corrupt as fuck supreme court made sure that billionaires would run the country.
And they have helped over and over to disable democracy and reduce the ability of citizens to affect change over monied interests who buy Thomas his motor home and other “gifts” (spelled bribes). And Scalia, and the others…
This…
if Leftists had voted for Hillary in 2016 abortion would still be legal.
So, this really isn’t true in any meaningful way. People like to make a big deal out of the 12% of Bernie voters who went for Trump, but the majority of them identified as conservatives or centrists, while only 18% identified as liberal or left-leaning. Likewise, a lack of turnout doesn’t seem to be the issue; black voter turnout dropped, but not by an unexpected margin, and young voters (who tend to be more left-leaning) had very strong turnout. Finally, you could try to blame leftists who voted third-party, but analysis shows that even if every single Jill Stien voter had gone to Clinton, she still would have needed to win over 50% of Gary Johnson’s voters (who were obviously unlikely to consider themselves leftists).
You might be able to get the numbers to work if you say that if every leftist who stayed home OR voted third-party OR went to Trump voted for Clinton she’d have won, but that’s incredibly hard to prove and probably relies on some specious assumptions (for example, that every Green Party voter was a disgruntled Democrat). At that point, you’re pulling so many different groups together under a single banner that it’s basically meaningless. You might as well say if women had voted for Hillary abortion would be legal.
